Talk Talk Bespoke Protocols?

redneon · 11 Aug 2008 at 09:27

I've recently switched to Talk Talk from Sky broadband. Yes, I know, big mistake. Thing is, my Sky broadband was so bad I didn't think Talk Talk could be any worse and I'm ashamed to say that the sales person who phoned me up converted me...

Anyway, I was wondering if Talk Talk use any kind of bespoke protocols for ADSL? The reason I'm asking is that on Sky I used to use a Netgear router. This one, actually.

When I switched to Talk Talk I set everything up using the modem they provided and once I knew everything was working I switched back to using my router. Now, this seems to work fine, for the most part. I can connect to the internet and browse web pages, which is the most important thing.

The problem I'm having is that when I use my Netgear router (with exactly the same settings as I had with Sky) certain applications no-longer work. I can connect to MSN Messenger in Windows, but I also use Pidgin as my ICQ client and this will no longer connect. Interestingly enough, the official MSN client in Mac OS no longer works, either.

I'm fairly sure it's not a problem with the router because I haven't changed any of the settings and they worked fine with Sky. BUT, if I switch back to using the modem that Talk Talk provided me with these applications work fine! So, I'm wondering if this modem has some kind of special setting or uses some kind of bespoke way of communicating with Talk Talk's servers.

I hate having to use Talk Talk's modem because I have numerous computers and games consoles I want to be able to connect but I'm loathed to give them £60 for their wireless router based on the terrible connection I've had so far.

Any ideas?

tipsy · 11 Aug 2008 at 09:32

if you still have sky's router flash it to a standard 834gt, there are plenty of forums if you just google it & it will save you money. BTW the netgear router you had selected is ok

redneon · 11 Aug 2008 at 09:36

Actually, the router I'm using IS a flashed Sky router

tipsy · 11 Aug 2008 at 09:40

there U go save some money

just update the firmware to the most upto date. I've got a collection of netgears & find the sky rebadged one worked better for some mad reason... maybe I broke the others.

redneon · 11 Aug 2008 at 09:43

I don't think you properly read my post

I AM using that router. Also, the firmware is up to date.

FrenchTart · 11 Aug 2008 at 09:50

Very odd. I'm not sure what'd be causing that but you might be better off asking on the TalkTalk forums on ADSLguide or on the general ADSL forums on there.

edit: I see you're using PCs as well as Macs... Hmm...

Have you enabled the firewall into some uber high setting and/or done something odd with the NAT? I seem to recall that the Netgear with the DGTeam firmware has something dodgy for MSN/etc that allows connections even when the firewall is up and running. I'd imagine that this could be causing the problems you're describing.

redneon · 11 Aug 2008 at 09:56

Aekeron said:
edit: I see you're using PCs as well as Macs... Hmm...

It's the same machine, actually. I'm using Windows via Boot Camp.

Aekeron said:
Have you enabled the firewall into some uber high setting and/or done something odd with the NAT?

I'm pretty sure that I haven't changed anything... I did upgrade the firmware, however. Perhaps that has reset something... I'll have to double check when I get home.

edit: I've posted this question on the Networking section at ADSLGuide too, by the way.

FrenchTart · 11 Aug 2008 at 09:59

redneon said:
It's the same machine, actually. I'm using Windows via Boot Camp.

Ah right. I'm almost certain that it won't be a hardware fault on the machine but if you run out of ideas it's probably worth testing another box on there.

The reason I edited in "using PCs as well as Macs" was because originally I suggested trying out a PC instead of a Mac. Realised my mistake shortly after

I'm pretty sure that I haven't changed anything... I did upgrade the firmware, however. Perhaps that has reset something... I'll have to double check when I get home.

Is it the DGTeam firmware you're using?

Look as the ALG Services page on the router config page to get an idea of what I'm talking about in my post above. It's the settings on there that make me think you may have a firewall issue (which in a small number of cases is being overcome by the ALG).

redneon · 11 Aug 2008 at 10:12

Aekeron said:
Is it the DGTeam firmware you're using?

I'm using the firmware I got from the NetGear website. Is the DGTeam firmware a modified firmware?

I don't remember seeing an ALG Services page. Is this specific to the DGTeam firmware?

By the way, I have a Windows laptop and I'm getting exactly the same problem on that so I'm pretty sure it's not a problem with the Mac

FrenchTart · 11 Aug 2008 at 10:19

It may be specific to the DGTeam firmware. I've not used the official firmware for so long that I'm not really sure :S

Either way, it's probably worth trying to upgrade to the DGTeam firmware. A re-flash/factory reset might sort your problem.

Fair enough /re the Mac and Windows laptop. Always good to rule out possibilities, even unlikely ones

redneon · 11 Aug 2008 at 10:24

Where can I get the DGTeam firmware from?

Also, just out of interest, why is it better to use the DGTeam firmware?

FrenchTart · 11 Aug 2008 at 10:27

Better stability and more configuration options as compared to the official firmware. It allows a far greater degree of control over your line connection options without resorting to remembering all the telnet commands

http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/tech...-dg834gt-pn-n-unofficial-firmware-dgteam.html

redneon · 11 Aug 2008 at 11:08

Cool, cheers. I'll flash the firmware with the DGTeam firmware tonight and see if it makes a difference.

One thing I did notice about the Huwai modem I got from Talk Talk is that it has a lot more configuration options. One that I was slightly concerned about is that it has bitswapping on the upstream and downstream packets enabled. I was wondering if this needed to be enabled on my Netgear router.

FrenchTart · 11 Aug 2008 at 11:48

Bitswapping is an option you can enable with the DGTeam firmware easily enough.

I'd have thought if that was an issue you'd have no connectivity at all though.

redneon · 11 Aug 2008 at 11:51

Yeah, I thought that too. But then I thought that perhaps some protocols might have cases that allow them to work however the bits are ordered. I know that most have cases that will work with both kinds of endianness.

My plan is to install the DGTeam firmware and if it doesn't automatically work then I'll just keep matching up the settings to those of the Huwai modem until they do

FrenchTart · 11 Aug 2008 at 11:59

Try a factory rest too. Just in case you've changed something from default that has knackered things.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but afaik the bit-swapping option would only effect the ADSL/ATM side of things and once you get 'up' to IP-level protocols, would be invisible to the network/application protocols in use.

Rabtech · 11 Aug 2008 at 12:01

Talktalk dont use any fancy protocols, just make sure you have the MTU set to 1400 and use some other DNS servers rather than Talktalk's - you should have no issues.

Keep us informed how you get on with the DGTeam firmware and post some screenies if possible

redneon · 11 Aug 2008 at 12:03

Yeah, I will. When I get home it'll be:

1) Install DGTeam firmware.
2) Reset to factory defaults.
3) Configure router until it works.

It doesn't sound like Talk Talk expect anything out of the ordinary so I'm sure that it'll be some configuration on the router that's borking it.

Anway, thanks a lot for your help and I'll keep you posted (pun wholely intended) on how things go.

FrenchTart · 11 Aug 2008 at 12:04

redneon said:
(pun wholely intended)

Now you're speaking my language

Good luck.

redneon · 11 Aug 2008 at 12:05

Rabtech said:
make sure you have the MTU set to 1400

My MTU is set to 1500. Should I lower it?

I didn't think about using alternative DNS servers. That's a great idea. Can you recommend any decent ones?