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Old 9th Mar 2010, 17:51   #1
TaKeN
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Peugeot 1.6 Petrol Won't Start - Help?

I could do with some help please.

My sisters Peugeot 306 1.6 Meridian refuses to start, the starter motor solenoid was knackered and kept playing up intermitently so my dad removed it (along with the power from the battery)and left it in this state for a week whilst my sister sourced a recon motor.

He put the new starter on today. Fired up the car, it ran for a few seconds and died. Now it refuses to start at all, it turns over but doesn't seem to fire.

I'm almost convinced that the imobiliser has kicked in, according to the manual there is a chip in the keyfob which the car recognises.

Having the battery disconnected for a whole week might have caused this to lose recognition?

I'm baffled, Ideas please!

EDIT - This car has NO imobiliser panel to key in a code.

Last edited by TaKeN; 9th Mar 2010 at 18:47.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 18:36   #2
hohum
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What year is the car?
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 18:46   #3
TaKeN
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What year is the car?
V reg Phase 3. So 99

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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:39   #4
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Not sure then. I've done some reading on Peugeot maintenance since getting my car (206), and when you said you'd had the battery disconnected I thought that it may be due to the BSI unit in the car (you have to ensure that the unit goes to 'sleep' before disconnecting the battery, else you risk buggering up the software on the unit and weird stuff starts happening with your car - lights not working, won't start, etc). This was introduced in all their cars from 2001/02 onwards though, so won't affect you.

I'd be tempted to go with your theory or possibly a duff fuel pump (which would explain why it initially started fine then just refused to run from then on). Could also check the connections/wiring to your coil pack, ignition ECU, etc (where applicable). Probably advisable to disconnect the battery again before doing that though

I'm not vastly knowledgeable on this stuff yet, but I'd have thought the above were good places to start.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 23:32   #5
TaKeN
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Thanks, according to what I've read the imobiliser cuts the feed to the Coil Pack, Fuel pump and Injectors..

so I don't know where to begin!

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Old 9th Mar 2010, 23:41   #6
Kae
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Try a quick "reset".
Disconnect the battery for 10mins then reconnect.

I know sod all about French cars (and don't intend to learn :P), but if you haven't reconnected the power "cleanly" this can cause all sorts of issues (or none at all).

Give it a go, can't do any harm, and could easily be the issue.
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Old 10th Mar 2010, 00:34   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaKeN View Post
I'm almost convinced that the imobiliser has kicked in, according to the manual there is a chip in the keyfob which the car recognises.
Why? I'm convinced it's an electrical issue, something has been knocked loose maybe?

Quote:
EDIT - This car has NO imobiliser panel to key in a code.
It does actually, it's called the throttle pedal. But if the immobiliser was preventing it starting, you'd have a light on the dash telling you this.

Do you have any warning lights?

Is there a spark? Is there fuel?
Pull a plug and smell it, then plug it into the coil/HT lead and sit it on the head/block, crank the engine and look for a spark. Then report back.



@Pedants, don't waste your breath telling me this test doesn't prove either a spark or fuel supply, I know this, It's a good 1st step.


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Old 10th Mar 2010, 00:39   #8
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Thanks, according to what I've read the imobiliser cuts the feed to the Coil Pack, Fuel pump and Injectors..

so I don't know where to begin!
If it's anything like everyone else's immobilisers:

The ECU tries to read the RFID tag in the key via a coil round the ignition barrel.
If a registered key is present it will activate as usual.
If no registered key is present it will not function as an ECU, so no injection or ignition occurs, a warning light will also be present on the dash.

If the code reader has failed you can usually tap out a 4 digit code on the throttle pedal, then start the car.

But if there's no warning light, this is unlikely to be an immobiliser problem.

There have been immobilisers on French cars that cut power supplies to stuff, but they were short lived as it's **** easy to hot wire them still.


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Old 10th Mar 2010, 08:36   #9
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Originally Posted by BigglesPiP View Post
But if there's no warning light, this is unlikely to be an immobiliser problem.
Is there an immobiliser warning light on the 306? Or was it just on the ph3 stuff?

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... muslim countries are still living in the dark ages.
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Old 10th Mar 2010, 10:42   #10
Nomisf
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One of the bolts that holds the starter motor in (also goes through gearbox) also holds a 3 wire thick earth strap that is sandwiched between two nuts on the end. If this is disconnected a large part of the engine bay loom remains unearthed (including, i beleive the fuel pressure regulator circuit). So check to see if it was reconnected when the stater was changed

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Old 10th Mar 2010, 10:49   #11
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Originally Posted by BigglesPiP View Post
It does actually, it's called the throttle pedal. But if the immobiliser was preventing it starting, you'd have a light on the dash telling you this.
LOLWAHT?

306's don't have an immobiliser light, it's keypad or nothing. I know. As for the throttle? What? Immobiliser kicks in you have the pump and coil etc. cut out, how would pumping the pedal help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigglesPiP View Post
Do you have any warning lights?
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigglesPiP View Post
Is there a spark? Is there fuel?
Pull a plug and smell it, then plug it into the coil/HT lead and sit it on the head/block, crank the engine and look for a spark. Then report back.
Can you read? He's said it cranks but doesn't fire, indicating a coilpack/fuel etc. issue.

You really do impress me at times. :/

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Old 10th Mar 2010, 11:08   #12
SB118
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^^ Put down the redbull, step away from the keyboard.

and breath

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... muslim countries are still living in the dark ages.
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Old 10th Mar 2010, 11:21   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvaderGIR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigglesPiP
Is there a spark? Is there fuel?
Pull a plug and smell it, then plug it into the coil/HT lead and sit it on the head/block, crank the engine and look for a spark. Then report back.
Can you read? He's said it cranks but doesn't fire, indicating a coilpack/fuel etc. issue.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with BigglesPIP's suggestion in this case
He has asked the OP to check that the engine is getting fuel and spark, which is exactly what you would do if the car was cranking but not firing.
If it's sparking but not getting fuel, then you look at the fuel system (including fuel pump relay)
If it's getting fuel but not spark you are looking at an ignition (coil pack/distributor if present/plugs/leads) fault of some sort.

Simple process of elimination.

I'd suggest if anyone is having difficulty reading posts, it's you...


In a collision, there you are. In an explosion, where are you?
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Old 10th Mar 2010, 12:34   #14
TaKeN
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Well its running now, I didn't get a proper chance to look at it yesterday as my dad was stressed to the max and told me to leave it alone, I popped the coil pack off then and checked two of the plugs, they weren't soaked so not much fuel getting in at all..

Closed the bonnet for the night read Biggles post on here this morning and went back out, shoved my head down the back of the engine and spotted the cable that Nomisof mentioned (honest, didn't even see your post)

I put the wire back on and it runs! It must have ran for those few seconds as it was earthing on the block. Then I guess it rattled out the way and thats why the car cut.


Cheers all.. Lesson learnt.. don't let your father work on mechanical things anymore! hah

Last edited by TaKeN; 10th Mar 2010 at 12:37.
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Old 10th Mar 2010, 13:13   #15
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^^ Put down the redbull, step away from the keyboard.

and breath
Don't do redbull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lopéz View Post
There is absolutely nothing wrong with BigglesPIP's suggestion in this case
He has asked the OP to check that the engine is getting fuel and spark, which is exactly what you would do if the car was cranking but not firing.
If it's sparking but not getting fuel, then you look at the fuel system (including fuel pump relay)
If it's getting fuel but not spark you are looking at an ignition (coil pack/distributor if present/plugs/leads) fault of some sort.

Simple process of elimination.

I'd suggest if anyone is having difficulty reading posts, it's you...
That part of it is a good fault detection yes, but the OP had stated (or appeared to have) that he'd checked these things.

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Old 10th Mar 2010, 14:10   #16
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Originally Posted by InvaderGIR View Post
That part of it is a good fault detection yes, but the OP had stated (or appeared to have) that he'd checked these things.
He didn't state anything like that. Hohum advised him to check those things, but nowhere did the OP say he'd done it - in fact he said he "didn't know where to start"....so you didn't read the thread properly and then accused BigglesPIP of not being able to read

LOL.


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Old 10th Mar 2010, 15:10   #17
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The actual fault is very similar to line one of my 1st post.

As for turning your nose up at the throttle pedal stuff, read page 190 of this document: http://aftersales.fiat.com/elum/main...09&isExaminer=
The throttle pedal is often used as a human input device for a backup code on immobilisers. But I did make it clear that this issue wouldn't be an immobiliser. If there was no spark and no fuel I'd have considered looking at ECU and code immobiliser issues, after finding a wiring diagram and checking for parts common to the ignition and fuel systems.


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Last edited by BigglesPiP; 10th Mar 2010 at 15:14.
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