Microsoft 072 Exams? Are they useful / worth anything?

entireweb said:

Global Corporation.........................ROFLMAO.

All your servers and "experts" are being outsourced to Bangalore. IT is just button pressing. Real skill comes in programming, designing architecture and systems.
That is why in the global corporation, I do business with (note: not work for), pays buckets of cash for 21 year old c/c++ linux gurus, who turn up for work, half stoned, at 1pm and bash a keyboard for 100 euro an hour. None of them have a certificate, but they all have Phds in real tough subjects such as Maths/Physics etc.

Show me an "IT" expert with a Phd in Maths/Physics.???????????????

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You really have no idea. Firstly I must have missed the outsourcing e-mail. I thought Global (for someone with a PHD) would have been self explanatory but obviously not. By Global I mean we have branches around the World. All of the IT is centrally controlled in the UK - I hope that clears it up. We have a team of 60 developers. A mixture of Java / C++ / .NET All of the other developers are currently outsourced to Russia (another 20 or so). However the internal IT support team is to valuable. If you outsource to other countries you get crap service no matter what you outsource. You also then have data protection issues (or the lack of it). Having someone onsite who you can go to (and chase if it's not fixed in an appropriate SLA) is invaluable.

If you want to be arsey I know our Cognos Developers get paid £700+ a day and theres no programming involved. They don't have PHDs nor do they have certs but that also means once the development is done they're out of there. So you must be stupid to program when you can earn a lot more by learning Cognos. You can also earn a lot more by becomming an MP so why not go do that.

Anyone can use version control, yes. But why rely on a developer to do it. All developers I know don't care about it - in fact most release modified code under the same version numbers. Having a tool whereby it forces you to do this is invaluable because every one knows that Devs are lazy when it comes to the admin part of the job. Especially when version control is FSA regulated and needs to be proven (for somethings like Solvency 2). Saying 'I put 1.2 in my code' doesn't really cut it.

You keep with your Indian chaps I'm sure they're not to fussed with getting back to you. You may get a call back in around 8 hours or whatever there SLA is (and lets not forget about the time difference). It's also well known that all IT support do is connect mapped drives. They don't install and maintaint the entire infrastructure you need to work. Button pressers? What the hell do you think you are?

How many people, let alone programmers, RTFM? Surely if you're that good at your job as you seem to claim to be then why would you RTFM?

Judging by your posts you sound like an absolute idiot. Why would any company pay a 21 year old, with no past experience, a high wage? Do they specifically have contracts on job boards for these 21 year olds? Is that a pre-req? All of the Devs that I've worked with have been over 30. Why? Because they have a proven record of delivery. I'll also tell you that they weren't on anywhere near 50k. The lead developer was on £40k and he managed the entire team.




M.

This forum is full of them however entireweb takes the cake. I have never seen such a demeaning, self important, obviously on a very very high horse person in my life. You make baby Jesus cry

entireweb said:

FFS, Working for a local council IMO, would count as EPIC FAIL in the world of Computing careers. I would have toned down the comment MRLOL, but............. I cant and my advice still stands, EPIC FAIL 50K.
Learn to program computers, eg, assembler, C, C++ especially on an embedded system: ARM, OMAP and microprocessor architecture. Actually its all there in an ebay BBC micro or any 8 bit computer.
Then you will earn a lot more than 50k.............................................

But you need at least a Masters degree as well in a hard subject.

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o_0

you have some serious issues mate.

I personally HATE programming. At 17/18 its what i thought i wanted to do. I went to uni and did a computing science degree and realised .... that i hated it !!

If you've got a degree and gone into development, then i'm glad you're doing a job you're happy with. But i can't stand it !

Hence why i went into support rather than development.

entireweb said:

Global Corporation.........................ROFLMAO.

All your servers and "experts" are being outsourced to Bangalore. IT is just button pressing. Real skill comes in programming, designing architecture and systems.
That is why in the global corporation, I do business with (note: not work for), pays buckets of cash for 21 year old c/c++ linux gurus, who turn up for work, half stoned, at 1pm and bash a keyboard for 100 euro an hour. None of them have a certificate, but they all have Phds in real tough subjects such as Maths/Physics etc.

Show me an "IT" expert with a Phd in Maths/Physics.???????????????

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And coders are not being outsourced to people who, like support outsource, do more work, better(debatable), faster and cheaper than these so called 'gurus'?

Yeah, your dreaming pal.

Coding is not a skill. There is no interpretation of code. It works, or it does not. There are variances in-between but really, why pay someone top dollar to do what someone in the East can do for a fraction of the price based on a brief given by developers (With ZERO coding skill nor a need for it).

Coding is not a 'skilled profession' as you are making it out to be.

Whilst this guy is ranting like a true cretin, I'll agree there is some kind of art to programming and being a good programmer, not everyone who can program is a good one.

However the rest of his rantings are quite amusing, not sure why he's got such a chip on his shoulder about it.

Out of all the non programmer IT people I know, which is quite a few, none have been outsourced to India and plenty of them have Phds in Chemistry, Physics, Engineering from what I can remember off the top of my head.

But then what do I know with my 1 worthless MS cert (not sure if any of my other certs are deemed worthless, probably as they aren't anything to do with programming).

Luckily my employer doesn't think what I've done is worthless, nor to the large 'global corporation' (who are actually the worlds largest services provider, around 190k employees I believe) who are currently after me

Major_Disaster said:

Thanks for such a great response (especially Trojan - cheers. How did the exam go?)

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Passed with 890, my lowest yet unfortunately but still, it's a pass. Got 70-643 in a couple of weeks, then just 2 more after that for the MCITP:Enterprise.

Major_Disaster said:

I was just wondering, how long should i expect to take to prepare for these exams? The offer ends on June 30th - so hopefully less than a month?

Is it doable?

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If you already possess a good amount of in depth Active Directory knowledge, then that should be fine. You'll need longer though if you've only ever used ADUC as you'll be tested on all AD components including ADCS, ADRMS, ADFS and ADLDS, along with things such as DNS, GPOs, and automation.

Sin_Chase said:

if you have experience already the exam is not going to teach you anything you either do not already know, know how to do better or will never use.

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I disagree. I've learnt a good amount more about WDS and IIS (both in use where I work), for example, from revising for the exams.

MrLOL said:

certs are only worth if if your prospective employer thinks so.

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I've yet to come across a company that views an MCSA/MCSE/MCITP as a negative. Yeah, some don't really care either way, but a lot of companies these days use them as a way to filter potential candidates. Hell, as you say, some companies demand one as a minimum.

entireweb said:

Utter Garbage

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You sir, are a complete moron.

Trojan said:

I've yet to come across a company that views an MCSA/MCSE/MCITP as a negative. Yeah, some don't really care either way, but a lot of companies these days use them as a way to filter potential candidates. Hell, as you say, some companies demand one as a minimum.

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Its only a negative for you if you've spent x thounsands of £ on your certs for your next employer to not give a damn.

If you can do them at somebody elses expense or get subsidized, its a win win scenario

Interestingly, for me, my employers have been the ones pushing for the certs (and paying for them at times) one of my objectives when I was an MCSA was to become an MCSE by the end of the 6 moth probation period.

Also when you go for a job you normally have a technical test. Most of the questions in the last one were questions I'd seen in the exams or studied for (so it helps in that to).

I have had to pay for a couple of exams - but that was to start me off really so I can't complain in what I've got out of them compared to the money I've put into it.



M.

My employers are keen for me to do the certification. I have a degree (BSc) too. The certs are useful on CV as they can encompass quite a large skill or knowledge in one or two lines.

It shows that you are keen to learn and have continued your quest for furthering self/knowledge by sitting the exams. If anything at all.

In short it looks good for my employer to have me as an employee with X,Y and Z certifications with vendors that we are enterprise partners with. It also looks good for me on my C.V. Win win?

I've had all my various exams and training courses pad for by my current employer bar 1 retake, can't complain really.