HD800 with creative x7 not sounding so great. Help!

I hooked tidal up via my phone from HD800 to my u7 and its not sounding so great... I have read the x7 is meant to drive these ok and I personally have no experience with any other H amp but it all sounds so lacking in any type of detail.

I have tested against my MA900 and I do notice a drastic difference in larger soundstage, but find the MA900 easier to listen too as the HD800 seem to need much higher volume which seems to effect the sound.

Is this down to the x7 amp or are the HD800 just not that good!

I have set the x7 at max impedance

I think you mean impedance

Is it just Tidal that sounds bad or have you also tried with music stored on your PC?

It should drive the HD800s without any problem, it sounded great with my HD650s, which are also 300 ohm headphones.

I have the Sony MDR-MA900 and the HD700, and between the twoI find also find the MA900 easier to listen to as well.

I guess it is down to the fact that the HD700/HD800 are brighter sounding headphones, and that you and me are more used headphone that are not as bright. Take my Philips X1 for example it doesn't have the soundstage, details of the HD700, but it is certainly much easier to listen to/less fatigue comparing to my HD700.

If you got some tube-amp, it can probably make it a bit more warmer sounding, and not as difficult to listen to. But I also read that the HD800 can be quite picky with amps, it can be a bit of challenge on finding a good match for it (on low budget).

Another thing to note is that whathifi has actually rated the headphone audio performance of the X7 below the £130 Audioquest Dragonfly DAC/headphone amp.

The 800 isn't difficult to drive but it does matter what you drive it with. The X7 is lean and bright which is a no no for the 800. The 800 pairs better with a warm dac and amp unless you want it as resolving as possible then the enjoyment will take a hit.

The 800 has always been a tool to my personally unless you mod it and it becomes more musical. The HD800 driver is probably the best out there when it comes I resolution etc.

Ryanr1987 said:

The 800 isn't difficult to drive but it does matter what you drive it with. The X7 is lean and bright which is a no no for the 800. The 800 pairs better with a warm dac and amp unless you want it as resolving as possible then the enjoyment will take a hit.

The 800 has always been a tool to my personally unless you mod it and it becomes more musical. The HD800 driver is probably the best out there when it comes I resolution etc.

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Thanks for that.

Is there anything I could put. In the x7 chain ie a Fiio or something, or am I best looking at a seperate unit?

I would like to use the HD800 for mostly gaming, so think I would miss the surround sound effects of the x7.... I have the option to change the opamps as well.

I don't think you can bypass the amp of the X7? It would just be double amping if you add another amp to the chain. If you want surround sound I'm sure one of the guys can find a cost effective silly too if you game on PC. If it's consoles grab a Mixamp for surround sound.

If it was me I'd sale the HD800 and grab a 650 if you want something nicer on the ears without taking a massive hit in resolution or something like the Audioquest Nighthawk or LCD-2 Pre fazor.

If you wanna stick with the HD800 I like the Mojo with it, it's an all in one solution with a great DAC and nice warm sound to it.

x7 has un amped L & R RCA outs on the back

Thanks all

I have a astro mixamp laying round somewhere I will have a test with that.

Will be for PC and console gaming.

I have some amazing Tannoy high end 2.0 stereo speakers that the HD800 cant match for presentation. So my HD800's are to be used for movies and games only.

Could try swapping the 2114 op amps for opa2227 and the lmes for opa227 or opa627 if you find it too bright. (might be enough to just changes the lmes).

I notice there is lots of opamps opening the back cover up.... Is the idea to change them all?

Yes, that little panel is for users to customise the sound by changing op-amps.

I wish I never bought such a complicated set of headphones.

To be fair, the HD800 is a little over kill for just gaming and movies. A lot of the people who have come to enjoy the HD800 have stated that they only like it with specific amps (mostly tube amps I think?) and even then, it's only with certain types of music.

Hmm X7 should be more than capable of driving the 800s volume wise :S the TPA6120A2 is driving the headphones directly which is more than capable of driving both high current and high voltage swing demanding headphones.

Should be 4 op amps under that cover - each channel (left and right) has 1x JRC2114D and 1x LME49710.

The 2114 is a dual op amp and the LME49710 a single - from other people's experimenting the LME seems to make the most difference to the sound quality. However on reflection I wonder if the mix of components is optimal for a listening experience - the 800s combined with the TPA6120A2 on the output is going to show up every little imperfection of the 2114 in excruciating detail and several components in the chain are known for having loud, bright treble and maybe not enough lower end presence.

"I don't have enough experience with the HD 800 to really get involved here. But why in the world did you get that headphone with a creative amp,and why oh why did you get that setup for movies and gaming only? Seems to me you're out of your depth here and maybe only have to much to spend on headphones? Get something better suited to your needs, like maybe the HD 650 or one of them cordless sennheisers, or maybe some steelseries phones? Sell the 800s and move on... Good thread though with informative"


This was a reply to Nightrider on Headfi...Firstly if the guy who replied doesn't have experience with the HD800 he needs to be quiet and not question the amp being used by Nightrider. He came across as a right douche and this is another problem on audio forums.

Don't waste your time on there you will end up buying something that is trash and overhyped. It seems all the knowledgable people are banned? Wonder why that is? Sponsors I bet!

This is why I prefer this forum, nobody judges you, no one is arrogant and everyone is honest. The HD800 isn't complicated as many make out. It's a little analytical but unlike the messy HD700, it's still a smooth response up until the treble region. I think it has the best bass bass extension of any fully open dynamic headphone.

The upper end is where the issues come into play it's just very revealing, unnatural in sound and is made to bring out very small detail. What I love about the HD800 is its driver is very low in distortion, micro detail is high and it's resolution is unmatched. Mods help make of a more musical headphone or adding a warmer chain if you just want to try lush them up a bit.

A Schiit Modi + Vali is £200 and that's a cheap and good sounding set up. Like the 650 the 800 scales like a daemon so it will get better as you upgrade or just stay with a Schiit stack. I'm just using my Chord Mojo to drive all my future gear, it's easy and good sounding.

Ryanr1987 said:

A Schiit Modi + Vali is £200 and that's a cheap and good sounding set up. Like the 650 the 800 scales like a daemon so it will get better as you upgrade or just stay with a Schiit stack. I'm just using my Chord Mojo to drive all my future gear, it's easy and good sounding.

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There's a member who have a Schilit Modi2 + Schiit Lyr 2 combo said it is really great for his HD700, but doesn't bolt too well with his HD800 and he's getting something else for it...so I wonder if the HD800 is even more pickier than the HD700 when it comes to pairing with amp...

Headphones are not picky, people are.

On a serious note the Lyr would depend on the tubes used. Schiit gear in general is on the leaner side but they are always great when it comes to resolution etc. The Vali is probably the first amp that isn't that typical schiit sound. It's softer, less rough.

The HD700 has way more issues than the HD800, much sharper peaks, pushed back mids, too thick down low, it's wonky as they as they come where as the HD800 has peaks but not as aggressive, mids morel linear through to the bass then it gently drops off so one sounding good without the other is weird to me, I've not heard the pairing(HD700 + LYR) but have heard the 800 and I understand the Lyrs characteristic.

Some people are just weird I guess

Is there a known amazing amp for my HD800? under £180 happy to buy used from headfi

Schiit Vali 2 - I'm hesitant to recommend it as I don't like recommending things I've not heard but I'm confident. It got rated high by some respected enthusiast who I trust so I've no doubt it's up to the job. I'd recommend saving a bit more and getting the Project Ember. The Ember is basically like having a Dragon built into an amp it's scary powerful but more importantly it sounds really good.

Ryanr1987 said:

The upper end is where the issues come into play it's just very revealing, unnatural in sound and is made to bring out very small detail. What I love about the HD800 is its driver is very low in distortion, micro detail is high and it's resolution is unmatched. Mods help make of a more musical headphone or adding a warmer chain if you just want to try lush them up a bit.

Click to expand...

This is where I don't think the chain is well matched - the 2114 has some imperfections in the mid-range which most headphones wouldn't reveal but the 800s absolutely would and also tends to have a bit of an overly loud, 1 dimensional treble which probably wouldn't play nice with the upper end on the 800s. Combined with the LMEs which also tend to be a bit cold and bright and you probably end up with very lean lower end and lots of nastiness in the treble on the 800s though I'm guessing at some of it as I've only heard the parts in isolation and not put together in one package.

Hence my recommendation of trying something like swapping all the op amps for OPA2227 (replace 2114s) and OPA227s (replace the LMEs) which would give a thicker more balanced sound.

EDIT: Or just changing the amp and/or DAC though the unamped RCA outputs on the X7 I believe are still connected off the LMEs but any amp downstream would also have a say on the sound signature unless it was truly transparent. The X7 seems to me is setup to make average headphones sound good but probably at the expense of its performance with truly high end headphones.