Building survey missed obvious asbestos issue - any recourse?

**EDIT - Outcome on post 76**

Following on from my issue choosing an electrician - one chap came round yesterday and was looking at the fuse box in the garage. Soon as he walked in he looked at the ceiling and said 'is that asbestos? Looks like AIB to me.'

Not having had any dealings with AIB it hadn't even entered my head what the ceiling might be (isn't this what the surveyor is paid to comment on?) I checked the building report and no mention of it was made.
I've since took a sample to a lab and they have confirmed it is AIB and contains white and brown asbestos.
I purchased the house 2 weeks ago, the survey was done in July. The house is a bungalow which sits above the garage, below the kitchen and living room floor boards are these AIB's.

Pics:





As you can see, it's not like it's hidden behind wallpaper or anything! The surveyor talked about the garage in his report as i asked him about it being feasible to knock through the wall to extend it all the way under the house. Plus the gas, water and electric meters are all in there so he spent a bit of time inside.
Ideally I'd like them to cover the cost of removal, seeing as this would have affected my decision buying it (or negotiated on the price).

what year was the house built?

Around 1980.

What survey did you pay for?

Was it in their remit to identify any asbestos?

If they are an RICS firm they should have a complaints procedure you can start there. If you are unhappy with that complain to the RICS.

I assume your stance is the value of the house to you would have dramatically changed if you knew about it?

i paid for a building survey (not the valuation or hom******s report, but supposedly the most thorough report).

i wouldn't have expected him to positively 100% ID it as asbestos, as it needs a sample taking to confirm it. however i would have expected a chartered surveyor, a so called expert to have recognised that it looks like AIB and recommended it be confirmed. Although i haven't yet had any quotes for removal its not going to be cheap, this most definitely would have affected the sale of the property. I'd have wanted it removed or the cost of doing so reflected in the purchase price.

yes they are RICS registered. I just wondered if anyone has any experience of pursuing a complaint like this.

I'm RICS. Write to the firm. They should have a complaints procedure. If you don't get a response you should go to the RICS themselves who will bring hell down on them for not responding to complaints.

Give them an opportunity to respond. They may even admit it and organise it's replacement. They may argue it wasn't part of the brief or scope of services. You want to know either way first.

It doesn't affect the value of the house at all in my opinion

There are millions of homes with asbestos in them, public buildings, railway and light industrial units. It only becomes a problem if some silly prat comes along and starts knocking holes in it without protective gear.

It was used for all sorts including pipe lagging, cladding, ceilings etc etc. We are surrounded by it.

Yes the surveyor should have picked it up but using it as leverage to knock money off is frankly cheap and a poor excuse.

It's not expensive to remove if you really want to remove it otherwise just leave it alone.

yeah i'll be putting an email together today with pictures to send to them.
fastwunz, it's still a pretty major thing you'd expect to have been mentioned though don't you think? it'll be expensive to have that removed. it's a hazard because we need to rewire and fit new central heating which means disturbing it all. (both those things were mentioned in the report)

fastwunz said:

It doesn't affect the value of the house at all in my opinion

There are millions of homes with asbestos in them, public buildings, railway and light industrial units. It only becomes a problem if some silly prat comes along and starts knocking holes in it without protective gear.

It was used for all sorts including pipe lagging, cladding, ceilings etc etc. We are surrounded by it.

Yes the surveyor should have picked it up but using it as leverage to knock money off is frankly cheap and a poor excuse.

It's not expensive to remove if you really want to remove it otherwise just leave it alone.

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Of course it impacts on the price of a house! It's a hazardous material that will require maintaining / monitoring and can increase the cost of any future development plans.

If it was within the scope of the survey to identify hazardous materials or reccomend additional surveys required then I would absolutely be taking recourse against the company.

I would also be interested to find out if the previous residents were aware. I doubt they had an asbestos ceiling without knowing about it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...rty-survey-Now-sellers-must-disclose-all.html

it is a very legit reason to knock money off a house that has an entire ceiling made of AIB. From reading up AIB is a pretty bad one for releasing fibres if disturbed and it's almost impossible to remove without doing so. removal cost will be 1,000's.
you're right about public buildings having it. They also have to have costly asbestos surveys done to monitor the risk.

The previous owner of the house was an elderly lady who passed away and had no relatives.

The presence of asbestos on a property is of considerable concern to a potential purchaser.

The original soffits on my Corportion of London built house were asbestos and the safe removal and disposal of these added £500 to the cost of replacing them with UVPVC.

That was 10 years ago and this was just 8 easily replaceable panels that pretty much lift out.

In my opinion it should have been highlighted as a potential risk, just like they do with damp, with the usual suggestion surveyors make of 'getting it checked out by an expert' (you've done that).

Asbestos is not necessarily a high risk, as long as it's in good condition and undisturbed (I come across it quite a lot in my job). But as you mention wanting to do some building work it will present issues and associated costs.

Do what macca says.

Anyone who says asbestos isn't a problem is talking utter crap. Any contractor you get in to do work where they need to go near it will laugh in your face and reply with "Contact me when it's removed". AIB however is the most common form of asbestos (if my asbestos awareness is true )

And what will you be having installed instead of the asbestos panels, there's probably planning regs that says building over a garage needs x amount of fire resistance

lude1962 said:

And what will you be having installed instead of the asbestos panels, there's probably planning regs that says building over a garage needs x amount of fire resistance

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Probably 140mm celotex with two layers of fireline board taped and jointed. That should give you modern insulation values and an hour fire resistance.

errr yeah what he said ^

Could be AIB, but it could just be Supalux. First thing to do would be have an asbestos consultncy take a sample of it and get it analysed. I see you are in Manchester, so you could contact AEC on Trafford Park. If it is confirmed as being asbestos then take it from there. EDIT sorry, didnt read the OP properly! You have a couple of options. Leave it in situ and work around it or have it removed. Removal of AIB is a full enclosure and costs £££'s. I reckon it will be at least £2000 to remove that lot, perhaps more.

From memory, house surveys like what you have paid for are done by people who are not specifically trained in asbestos materials. I doubt it would be in the remit of the survey to identify or advise on asbestos products. You may find some generic disclaimer buried somewhere in the report similar to "given the age and construction of the property, abestos materials may be present blah blah blah".

What I will say, though, is that if you are planning extensive refurb work it may pay to have a proper asbestos survey done. Indeed, if your tradesmen have anything about them - they will insist on it and they should not start work until you have produced an asbestos survey. Whilst private owners do not fall under the umbrella of the CAR regs, any commercial tradesmen that you have on site do and they should comply fully with the regulations. This means there is a duty on them to protect their workers and the general public (you) under CAR 2012 and HSWA 1974 in any commercial undertaking where there could be a risk of disturbing asbestos materials.

In a house like yours, it is likely that potential asbestos products will not be limited to ceiling boards in a garage. There could be other products too.

If you read the first post, i took it to AEC and it has white and brown asbestos in it.

Teknobry said:

If you read the first post, i took it to AEC and it has white and brown asbestos in it.

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Aye, I have amended my post accordingly. I had a bout of Monday morning blindness!

I though all surveys had it written into the fine print that the house they've inspected could have any number of defects which aren't covered in the scope of their survey even if it's obvious!
I find home buyers/mortgage surveys are the most non-committal things!
This is definitely something that should be pursued through a formal complaints procedure and through their governing body.

As an aside - is having them there going to impact converting that into a room significantly? Could it not be left in place rather than taken out?