Tabletop Warhammer?

Mockingbird · 11 Feb 2016 at 16:02

Check with your local tournament organiser to be super certain, but I'm 99.9% sure you'd have no problem with that - paint what you like. If you are someone who enjoys having a fluff reason, you can say your particular lot are a special mission detachment with their own livery, or seconded to a multi-chapter taskforce, or had to repair their armour on the red paint planet of LV529 or... basically anything.

In game terms, if you want to play in a vaguely competitive setting, as long as it's clear what your troops are and what gear they have, you're golden.

Spuj · 12 Feb 2016 at 07:21

wildman said:
quick question about 40K. DO you have to stick to the colour scheme of the chapter as laid out in the codex ? e.g Imperial Fist chapter really interests me, but I really don't want a yellow coloured army (mainly because yellow is damn hard to get right on small models) could I give them a different colour scheme say like black with yellow/grey highloghts but still officially use their doctrines and codex in a competitive game ?

The short anwser is Yes you can.

If you are running a Chapter that you have created, you can name it as a successor chapter to the Imperial Fists and use their chapter tactics with that army in game.

In fact I'm pretty sure with a Custom SM chapter you have created, there is nothing stopping you from using different Chapter tactics in different games so if you wanted to try out the Ultramarine Chapter tactics for a game, there is nothing stopping you doing so (some creative fluff for the army and you are away

).

thep02 · 12 Feb 2016 at 11:57

ShadowMan said:
For reference retail on everything when I last counted was £2500 but I have added stuff since. I don't imagine many people spend that in 1 go on this stuff.

Will have to have a think.

Yeah my kids aren't interested now and I've had 7/10K worth of toys sitting there in their boxes most ready for war but a fair few still on spru, I used to have 12,000pts of greenskins, my empire and dwarfs 7000pts plus each and playable 4000+ pt armies in lizard men and bretonians. I have successfully sold my dogs of war and vampire counts armies and small high elf force.

We were all in our thirties when we got into the hobby so were big spenders in our arms race to oblivion.

No1newts · 22 Feb 2016 at 15:46

I was in a comic/hobbies shop at the weekend and they were selling some GW models, I saw one at £14 for a single plastic model in a blister pack! Is that par for course these days? If so I'm glad I abandoned ship when I did, how can they justify those prices? Was really shocked!

Kyrne · 22 Feb 2016 at 17:57

Some blisters are £18-20 now. A Blood Angel Chaplin is £20. Crazy stuff.

No1newts · 22 Feb 2016 at 20:14

That is insanity! What's the justification beyond GW being robbing *******?

Jolteh · 23 Feb 2016 at 00:52

It's the standard GW model isn't it?

As the sales gradually diminish, they flog the remainder of their loyal customers just a little harder.

ShadowMan · 23 Feb 2016 at 01:54

Whilst prices are high, model sculpts and quality have never been better. Gone are he days of metal and resin (mostly) and casting in sand or silicone from cast masters. Now they are using plastic and higher detail 3D cad and cnc to design and cut metal die that hold detail not dreamt of 10 years ago. It is a far more expensive process and for small run models like characters it means prices will be high. If it costs the same to cut a mold for 10 tactical marines as it does for 1 captain then the captain is higher priced to recoup costs on a lower sales volume. Not many people buy 3 captains but they might buy 3 tactical squads. The material cost of plastic is so low that the main cosy is creating the mold for he injection machine.

I don't disagree that it is an expensive hobby but of every game I have played the sculpts and design are simply unmatched.

That said, I buy from online stores and not direct to save 25%. I fully believe if they cut their prices in half and reduced discount to retailers to 5% from 50% then people would still complain. They are forced to sell to open market and other retailers who pass on discounts. GW need to ensure margin on he product they do sell can offset reduced profit from selling to the wider distribution chain.

If you check the yearly figures for GW, their profit vs turnover isn't extremely high. There are huge overheads and it is a premium product that is a luxury for all customers.

You may as well ask why are ferraris so expensive. It's just a car...

Shamikebab · 23 Feb 2016 at 09:23

That implies that GW is higher quality than the rest of the miniature world when it simply isn't. In fact they are generally charging resin prices for plastic miniatures.

I can go and order a resin Twisted miniature from Australia and it's still cheaper than a GW plastic model and much, much higher quality.

GW's recent releases have been pretty dull. The Blood Angels chaplain is probably their nicest mini in years and the Ad-Mechs weren't bad but everything else has been pretty uninspired.

ShadowMan · 23 Feb 2016 at 10:05

You imply that resin should cost more than plastic which on a raw material cost is probably true but resin mini's are also considerably cheaper to make the masters for as they can be 3d printed or cast/cut from cheaper materials. A single cut master will create lots of silicone molds. A plastic injection process requires a huge investment to create the die as it needs to last.

I also disagree that resin holds detail better than plastic. I have yet to see a single resin hold the fine line detail that plastic can. Sharp edges in resin just don't happen as they soften in the molds. There are also a lot more issues with bent pieces, air bubbles and gap filling that just isn't needed in a well designed plastic model.

As an ex-Tau player I found all their new releases great. They fitted the fluff, following a single design ethos and were great to put together.

Looking at your example of Twisted, their models are £15 each plus shipping. That is a similar price but at a much lower volume of scale and with cheaper manufacturing processes. They have not designed or costed to create those in the thousands and on a continuous basis. I also don't think there is any more detail in those miniatures than a GW one and that is despite them having a larger scale to use. I also guarantee that when that resin model arrives it will need work to make it fit and repair that a plastic model just wouldn't.

Jolteh · 23 Feb 2016 at 12:43

ShadowMan said:
Whilst prices are high, model sculpts and quality have never been better. Gone are he days of metal and resin (mostly) and casting in sand or silicone from cast masters. Now they are using plastic and higher detail 3D cad and cnc to design and cut metal die that hold detail not dreamt of 10 years ago. It is a far more expensive process and for small run models like characters it means prices will be high. If it costs the same to cut a mold for 10 tactical marines as it does for 1 captain then the captain is higher priced to recoup costs on a lower sales volume. Not many people buy 3 captains but they might buy 3 tactical squads. The material cost of plastic is so low that the main cosy is creating the mold for he injection machine.

I don't disagree that it is an expensive hobby but of every game I have played the sculpts and design are simply unmatched.

That said, I buy from online stores and not direct to save 25%. I fully believe if they cut their prices in half and reduced discount to retailers to 5% from 50% then people would still complain. They are forced to sell to open market and other retailers who pass on discounts. GW need to ensure margin on he product they do sell can offset reduced profit from selling to the wider distribution chain.

If you check the yearly figures for GW, their profit vs turnover isn't extremely high. There are huge overheads and it is a premium product that is a luxury for all customers.

You may as well ask why are ferraris so expensive. It's just a car...

I don't doubt what you're saying is true, but sadly the prices completely turn off prospective new hobbyists. There's no way a young teenager can afford to get into the hobby now, so they're relying on their current older fans to keep everything ticking over. I think I've seen a news headline every January for the past 3+ years talking about how GW sales were down yet again over the previous Christmas.

GW seem to periodically make announcements like "oh we've changed our manufacturing process so that we can produce better quality minis than ever before, but we've had to increase our prices by XX% to cover the costs". You've got to ask yourself "Why?". No-one ever complained that the quality of their products wasn't up to scratch, but everyone complains about their prices.

It's pretty tragic really, because the GW IP is amazing. The company is just so badly managed though.

Shamikebab · 23 Feb 2016 at 14:11

ShadowMan said:
You imply that resin should cost more than plastic which on a raw material cost is probably true but resin mini's are also considerably cheaper to make the masters for as they can be 3d printed or cast/cut from cheaper materials. A single cut master will create lots of silicone molds. A plastic injection process requires a huge investment to create the die as it needs to last.

I also disagree that resin holds detail better than plastic. I have yet to see a single resin hold the fine line detail that plastic can. Sharp edges in resin just don't happen as they soften in the molds. There are also a lot more issues with bent pieces, air bubbles and gap filling that just isn't needed in a well designed plastic model.

As an ex-Tau player I found all their new releases great. They fitted the fluff, following a single design ethos and were great to put together.

Looking at your example of Twisted, their models are £15 each plus shipping. That is a similar price but at a much lower volume of scale and with cheaper manufacturing processes. They have not designed or costed to create those in the thousands and on a continuous basis. I also don't think there is any more detail in those miniatures than a GW one and that is despite them having a larger scale to use. I also guarantee that when that resin model arrives it will need work to make it fit and repair that a plastic model just wouldn't.

Incorrect, I have many and they are superb quality actually.

Resin is much, much better than plastic. I guess if you're only used to GW failcast you might think otherwise but people like Kingdom Death, Twisted, Mierce, Figone, Infamy etc all produce high quality resin miniatures that are far better than any plastic release. If you want durable models for gaming then sure plastic is fine, but if you're a painter and like painting display quality then resin is by far the best.

Warbie · 23 Feb 2016 at 15:25

Regardless of price, I haven't been a fan of GW's design choices for a while now. Especially Age of Sigmar. Seriously - wtf are they thinking?! None of the charm and humour of the 90s is present anymore and the current crop of games do absolutely nothing for me. A far cry from what the used to be.

ShadowMan · 23 Feb 2016 at 15:56

Shamikebab said:
Incorrect, I have many and they are superb quality actually.

Resin is much, much better than plastic. I guess if you're only used to GW failcast you might think otherwise but people like Kingdom Death, Twisted, Mierce, Figone, Infamy etc all produce high quality resin miniatures that are far better than any plastic release. If you want durable models for gaming then sure plastic is fine, but if you're a painter and like painting display quality then resin is by far the best.

I haven't touched GW failcast for years and other than their Forgeworld products I stay away from their resin models intentionally. My comparison was actually based on the likes of Forgeworld, Kingdom Death and Mierce. I personally believe the level of detail is higher in GW plastic than in any of those for current new gen models that have been 3d CAD designed.

You may be right that my preference comes from a desire to game too as that is what I do but I like the plastics being produced and I fully understand the high price point required in producing them. I also agree however that the high prices can be a barrier to newer players. I remember saving pocket money as a kid to buy something new for my marines but with my own kids now I know they won't have that option unless I start giving them lots more money which I won't be doing.

It was nice to see GW trying to address this with starter sets bound for toystores thought at the latest major toy show. They clearly know there are holes in the market they need to fill.

lordhughes · 25 Feb 2016 at 06:50

Currently assembling my fire warrior squad, does anyone have any thoughts on the best drones to support them?

Warbie · 27 Feb 2016 at 22:19

I just spent an obscene amount on money on complete Necromunda Delaque and Ratskin gangs and don't regret it at all

Pics:

I used to drool over these as a kid, but couldn't afford them. Now they're mine, Necromunda is being remade, and it's time to get painting!

gradyhawks · 29 Feb 2016 at 08:28

Just finished painting a friends Ogre, mainly for DnD tbh, but was nice to paint a slightly larger model. I think I did really well, the one on the left is what it kind of looked like before.

It looks darker in real life, it was the flash, and the face isn't as bad as it looks ... the flash drowned out some of the other colours. I still can't paint faces though.. so I decided to coat it with blood.

Mockingbird · 29 Feb 2016 at 16:53

Warbie said:
I just spent an obscene amount on money on complete Necromunda Delaque and Ratskin gangs and don't regret it at all

Pics:

I used to drool over these as a kid, but couldn't afford them. Now they're mine, Necromunda is being remade, and it's time to get painting!

The delaque with heavy flamer is such a great model to paint. Nice pickup

Warbie · 1 Mar 2016 at 11:06

Mockingbird said:
The delaque with heavy flamer is such a great model to paint. Nice pickup

Cheers dude. They should arrive today. I'm more excited than an adult should be about the delivery of some tiny army men!

ShadowMan · 1 Mar 2016 at 11:14

I know the excited feeling. I sold my Tau a couple of weekends back and was looking forward to delivery of a new Blood Angels force yesterday. Unfortunately UPS mis-shipped the package to Amazon Distribution Centre and it is now lost in their incoming dock.

I have contacted Triple Helixthe to let them know and the only response I had was before we knew UPS lost it. My tracking shows delivered and signed for by "Santa". Since I have told them it is lost I get no response to emails and they never answer their phone.

Will be speaking with the bank today about a chargeback so I can order elsewhere. At present I have pretty much no models and they have my money...