Council Tax

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Council tax is a flat rate tax that means nothing to the rich and allot to the poor and it has no place in a modern society. The real issue here is the disgrace of an overcomplicated tax system we have in place that puts taxes on taxes on taxes. There are plenty of pressure groups seeking tax reform, and while there is some awareness it is moving so blooming slow, while real people are suffering on the ground.

But then that is the way of old blighty

Council tax is a banded form of taxation based on property values, it is not a flat rate tax.
 
Caporegime
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I think he means it's non-means tested, which I agree is a problem, taxes should always be means tested otherwise they can force people onto the streets who can't afford to pay them.
 
Soldato
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Council tax is a banded form of taxation based on property values, it is not a flat rate tax.

It's hardly proportional though.

Based on Bath:

2 bedroom small terrace house worth ~£150k = £1305 CT
5 bedroom huge detached house worth ~£1m = £2400 CT

So a house worth almost 10x as much has to pay less than double CT

Edit: in fact, I got curious:

£25m 5 bed house in Mayfair (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-43946330.html)

How much council tax?

£1,361.48

http://www.westminster.gov.uk/servi...emocracy/councils/counciltaxandfinance/bands/
 
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Soldato
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Seems fair enough, you get plenty of opportunities to settle your debt first. Won't be signing.

Agreed.....

Many countries for many years (sometimes hundreds) have enforced taxation on the masses and some with custodial penalties for non-payment.

Don't see why the OP is so special......
 
Soldato
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It's hardly proportional though.

Based on Bath:

2 bedroom small terrace house worth ~£150k = £1305 CT
5 bedroom huge detached house worth ~£1m = £2400 CT

So a house worth almost 10x as much has to pay less than double CT

That's partly because no government has committed to a revaluation since council tax came in in 1993 so the bands still relate to property prices in 1991.

A revaluation is badly needed and if we had regular reassessments like with non-domestic rates I think it would be a fair system and suitable for purpose
 
Soldato
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It's hardly proportional though.

Based on Bath:

2 bedroom small terrace house worth ~£150k = £1305 CT
5 bedroom huge detached house worth ~£1m = £2400 CT

So a house worth almost 10x as much has to pay less than double CT

Edit: in fact, I got curious:

£25m 5 bed house in Mayfair (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-43946330.html)

How much council tax?

£1,361.48

http://www.westminster.gov.uk/servi...emocracy/councils/counciltaxandfinance/bands/


Is that big house and it's occupants using more council services? Not trolling, legitimate question, why should they pay a huge amount more in council tax? They have more money? Oddly enough we have a tax system that's meant to tax the rich, we just let them use loopholes to avoid it.

Council tax rebanding won't fix that.
 
Soldato
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Council tax should be means tested.

Someone earning £50k paying same amount as someone earning minimum wage is not right.

Playing devlis advocate: if both of those people in your example are using the council (local) services to an equal degree (which seems plausible considering what the services are (waste removal, street lighting, road management, police, fire etc), then why should someone pay more just because they earn more?
 
Associate
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Actually, I will sign if you'll amend the petition to suggest that tax arrears (and might as well throw in court fines etc) are deducted from source (benefits or earnings) as an alternative at either value or a cap of 20% of income until paid in full. That way we have no prison and a definite maintenance of income stream.


That would make far too much sense.

That is actually exactly what currently happens.

You are billed, you miss a month a reminder is issued.

No payment for reminder and summons is issued incurring £75 costs.

The council then obtain a liability order from the courts which allows them to do an attachment of benefit if you are on benefits (£3.60 per week) or an attachment of earnings if you work (between 6% and 15% depending on how much you earn).

Nobody ever goes to prison for not paying Council Tax, it is virtually unheard of. Maybe occurs in the rarest of cases.
 
Soldato
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Is that big house and it's occupants using more council services? Not trolling, legitimate question, why should they pay a huge amount more in council tax? They have more money? Oddly enough we have a tax system that's meant to tax the rich, we just let them use loopholes to avoid it.

Council tax rebanding won't fix that.

It was a response to someone stating that it's based on property values. Yes it is, but hardly in a proportional fashion.

Playing devlis advocate: if both of those people in your example are using the council (local) services to an equal degree (which seems plausible considering what the services are (waste removal, street lighting, road management, police, fire etc), then why should someone pay more just because they earn more?

Because someone who can afford to pay £4,000/month on a mortgage/rent isn't going to struggle because of a £150 council tax payment. Someone who can only afford to pay £400/month potentially is.
 
Man of Honour
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Is that big house and it's occupants using more council services? Not trolling, legitimate question, why should they pay a huge amount more in council tax? They have more money? Oddly enough we have a tax system that's meant to tax the rich, we just let them use loopholes to avoid it.

Council tax rebanding won't fix that.

Many "rich" people can not use the loop holes, if they are payee they are stuffed. Where the biggest amount of loopholes are contractors and self employed of which few are rich. And most are working class. So its a bit of a silly statement. Focusing on the small portion of business owners making millions, when the majority that can use loopholes is working class self employed or contractors.
 
Soldato
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Playing devlis advocate: if both of those people in your example are using the council (local) services to an equal degree (which seems plausible considering what the services are (waste removal, street lighting, road management, police, fire etc), then why should someone pay more just because they earn more?

I didn't say they should pay more, I say the people who earn less should pay less.

Then they might not need to take as much benefits back out of the system. Tax credits and that malarkey.
 
Soldato
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Because someone who can afford to pay £4,000/month on a mortgage/rent isn't going to struggle because of a £150 council tax payment. Someone who can only afford to pay £400/month potentially is.



Adding more devils to the mix, should we apply the same policy to a pint of milk? What's the point of earning more if everything is in proportion to your wage? rent 35%. Council tax 6%. Pint of milk 0.03%.
 
Man of Honour
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Council tax should be means tested.

Someone earning £50k paying same amount as someone earning minimum wage is not right.

Why, this is already taken care of in tax from your pay. Making everything means tested, is just so darn expensive and complicated, just raises the price for everyone as you have to hire thousands of people to check it and sort it out.
 
Soldato
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Council tax should be means tested.

Someone earning £50k paying same amount as someone earning minimum wage is not right.

Does this mean that the person paying the higher amount of council tax because they earn more gets better use of the facilities this extra payment is used for as this tax is different to your normal income tax.
 
Associate
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One of my favourite things to watch on tv is to watch Baliffs come and take things from people who try to live above their means....people who buy cars, houses, general luxuries they cant afford......people who havent worked very hard in life and ended up in meanial jobs, but still want all the things in life that the hardworking, well paid people have earnt.

This in turn breeds a debt culture and attitudes like the OP.....where not paying a tax that everyone in this country has to pay should be acceptable.

Its all take take take, but when expected to give back they kick and scream and say its unfair.

Why should I and the rest of the working world pay for the services you use everyday by living in this country, while you spend your money on luxuries you cant afford and not pay your way?

People get enough help in this country from the tax man, job seekers, tax credits...and rightly so....we should help our fellow countrymen in times of need......but pi$$takers and tax dodgers can rot for all I care.
 
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