why all the hate for hs2?

Soldato
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The onlt thing I'm worried about is the amount of time it's forecast to take to finish construcion. I hope they don't do something daft like buy the trains based on current technology now, and then by the time HS2 opens, we have 10-20 year old trains with most likely outdated tech.
 
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I'm not against it. The idea of connecting our two biggest cities with a fast rail link works for me, so long as ticket prices aren't so expensive that most of us are forced to use the existing slower line anyway...
 
Man of Honour
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The onlt thing I'm worried about is the amount of time it's forecast to take to finish construcion. I hope they don't do something daft like buy the trains based on current technology now, and then by the time HS2 opens, we have 10-20 year old trains with most likely outdated tech.

Absolutely. Futureproofing rolling stock is critical to infrastructure projects.
 
Soldato
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Apparently HS2 is essential for UK's economy - says MPs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25355233

Labour isn't going against it either
BBC News said:
Shadow transport secretary Mary Creagh said: "Labour supports HS2 because we must address the capacity problems that mean thousands of commuters face cramped, miserable journeys into Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and London.
I especially love that quote, commuters face cramp commutes because they're sending trains with 2 carriages when they know they need at least 4 during peak hours!
 
Soldato
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HS2 is a waste of time and money the UK simply isn't big enough to benefit from high speed rail the journey times are not long enough to make up for the out of town stations. Take the Sheffield train stopping at Meadowhall instead of in the city by the time you've factored in the transfer time your not getting to London any quicker than if you take the current train and you'll be paying through the nose for the privilege.

The money would be far better spent adding more capacity at existing speeds but that doesn't sound exciting enough. As for the idea that it will improve the northern economy by moving jobs out of London surely it's obvious that it will do exactly the oposite and encourage more jobs in the south maintaining the continued over crowding problem in our capital.
 
Associate
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We should never have gotten rid of the network in the 50's, a tory mess up ! I'm against anything that tears up the countryside and green land, be better of improving the road network and deprivatising the rail network and running it properly.
 
Caporegime
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So when do people think the inquiry will be held to look into why this project failed or didn't deliver? I say around 2043.

No love for my carefully crafted adaptation of the monorail song :(
 
Associate
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Assuming that the country can only afford one large infrastructure project (although both would be great!), I wish that instead of spending £30bn on HS2, the Government instead spent it on funding a 100% rollout of FTTP by collaborating with BT Openreach in a similar arrangement to the aborted NBN rollout in Australia. I reckon that could be achieved in 15 years, including the installation of Optical Network Terminals in each premises. I'm sure that those residents who have their ONTs installed first will query why they have to wait 14 years for it to be used, but the Government would have to explain that their great-great-great-grandparents in the early 20th Century would have expressed similar concerns when telephone lines and plumbing were being installed in their houses - which today's generation now takes for granted as essential utilities. Even 50 years ago, some people didn't have running water and had to use an outdoor toilet and use a mangle for their washing.

Currently, the maximum speed of Google Fiber in the US is 1Gbps down / 1Gbps up for $70 p/m. However, they provide a service for free at 5Mbps down (i.e. 5% of the maximum) / 1Mbps up, so long as a $300 construction fee is paid, either one-off or at $25p/m for 12 months. Disregarding the cost of the router, an 8-port gigabit switch is around £25 and an 8-port 10GBASE-T switch around £500. CFO Patrick Pichette has already said that a 0Gbps symmetrical ought to be rolled out in 2017. This will hopefully drive down the cost of the dearer switch to that of the cheaper one. If we work on the basis that Google also increase the bandwidth of their free service by a factor of 10 then that will be 50Mbps down / 10Mbps up. From what I understand, Google currently use a WDM-PON/G-PON hybrid so presumably they will continue with this topology. I understand that the next steps for the latter technology are 10G-PON, 40G-PON and 100G-PON.

By 2030, I'd like to see 100Gbps symmetrical as the fastest service available in the UK and 10Gbps symmetrical as the free service (it's fair to assume that Google will offer the same by then). A one-off £300 construction fee is cheaper than the yearly £150 that people currently pay for landline rental. A 100GBASE-T switch will be the same £25 as a gigabit switch is now. By then, the successor to HEVC / H.265 (let's call it H.266) could be implemented into £50 STBs, which will be ideal for 8K / Super Hi-Vision Broadcasting. It will have been 20 years since people had to last spend £25 on an MPEG-2 STB for Digital Switch Over so they won't complain about the expenditure, and a 10Gbps guaranteed uplink speed will be fine for cloud DVR functionality. Therefore, similar to what was proposed by the House of Lords a couple of years ago, the UK's entire TV and radio broadcasting could immediately be switched from OTA to IPTV, which would instantly free up TONS of spectrum for mobile data ('6G' by then), and if that had been auctioned five years prior (i.e. 10 years from now) then it could be switched on at once.

The stated rationale for HS2 is to increase rail capacity, not speed (as people in this thread have said, it is debatable whether the current lines and rail technology are being used to their full potential, and it is said that the distances between cities in the UK are too small for maglev, let alone Hyperloop, to reach full speed and therefore be cost-effective), yet ensuring that the South of England has a direct rail route to the North of England so that the latter can compete economically with the former. The Government encourage people to travel on public transport, but the reason that people travel by train rather than coach is that it is faster than even car. However, we are approaching the 50th anniversary of the 70MPH speed limit. In that time, cars have become far safer and more reliable. By 2030, self-driving electric cars will be available for under £10,000. Therefore, given that the majority of road accidents occur at low speeds, surely the speed limit could be increased to 100MPH+ on motorways?

Once the problem of poor yields has been solved, I understand that OLED TVs will be cheaper to produce than LCD TVs. Imagine a 150" 8K OLED display. Microsoft will have their fifth-generation Kinect out by then. Cisco Telepresence will have improved. Oculus Rift will probably be on the 15th iteration of their VR headset. Will businesspeople still need to physically commute as frequently in 2030, 2040, 2050 anyway?
 
Soldato
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Personally, I'm against it because it's not ambitious enough. It will allow people to go from London to Brum a little bit faster. Big whoop. This is the country that invented rail travel, so I want to see us doing something a bit more ambitious, not just playing catch-up with neighbouring countries that already have decent rail networks. How about a nation-wide maglev network? Or that semi-evacuated tube thing Elon Musk was talking about last year? Just something, anything, would be better than an incremental upgrade from what we already have.

And for such an unambitious and boring project, the cost and time-to-completion is staggering.
 
Caporegime
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I've said it before in a different thread but can't find the post. HS2 in itself is a reasonable enough project, but once again the government have screwed over the rest of the country and made sure that the investment will favour London.

Not joining HS2 to HS1 with the 500m of track it would take is a travesty and a big **** you to the rest of the country.
 
Soldato
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We should never have gotten rid of the network in the 50's, a tory mess up ! I'm against anything that tears up the countryside and green land, be better of improving the road network and deprivatising the rail network and running it properly.

"Closing" the branch-lines was a sensible enough decision. After all, the problem was that nobody was using them!

However,

Selling off the land and losing the rights of way was a catastrophic error!

In an ideal world reopening the branch lines (many of which would today be popular and busy commuter routes) would trump HS2 any day.

The problem is that it would be almost impossible to do so now!
 
Man of Honour
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As a Londoner (ugh :() I'm more interested in Crossrail 2 being approved.

That said, I'm still in favour of improved infrastructure throughout the UK where high speed is actually high speed.

I've used HS1 and it really is a great service. Problem is rural services are still shocking.
 
Soldato
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Except that it does increase rail capacity and frees up the older line for more freight and local services...

what we need is ones going from north west to north east and vice versa(south west to south east)

Also ones that go north west to south west etc. Right now, everything goes central only.

Jobs should also be spread out more too. seems like every damm company wants to be in central london.
 
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