Why a delay on headset mic?

ttaskmaster · 16 Sep 2016 at 13:55

Heya,

I should start by saying I have almost NO idea what all the different sound settings do on these things. I'm not a particular audiophile and much of this stuff is magic and mystery to me.

I have a Xonar D2X soundcard, feeding a Steelseries Siberia V2 headset.
I've removed all other audio drivers, mucked about with some mixer settings, and generally gotten the sound to something I like, based on the sound I get with a number of songs and videos I'm very familiar with.

However, when I enable the Monitor and/or Listen To This Device settings in Windows, I'm getting a delay between me speaking and the voice coming back to me, of roughly 100-200 miliseconds.

Before I installed the soundcard, I was using the headset through the motherboard's rear panel jacks and the case front I/O which is obviously connected to the motherboard header. I had delays there, too.
I also had issues with things like Steam Chat, where the other party was hearing the notifications at my end echoing back to them. Since using the sound card, that issue seems to have cleared up, though.
Motherboard is an ASRock X79 Extreme4-M, running Windows 10.

I'm using the default playback and recording devices in Windows sound settings.

Are there any settings I can alter to correct the delay issue, or is it likely to be a feature/flaw with the headset?

Marsman · 16 Sep 2016 at 15:34

It's the nature of beast. When you speak into a microphone, that audio has to be processed. It takes time to do that and play it back to you, even if it's milliseconds. To have no delay , the sound would have to be played back to you exactly the same time as you speak, which is impossible.

ttaskmaster · 16 Sep 2016 at 17:55

None of the other headsets I've previously owned had this problem, though.
From the cheap Logitech £15 one, through three USB headsets, to a pretty decent Sennheiser set.

I'm not talking a couple of milliseconds, where it's imperceptible... It's got a good delay, of almost a quarter second and it's enough of an 'echo' effect that it's unusable. I start talking and then get 'me' talking all over myself and I just can't carry on.

It's got to be the headset at fault, or something in the soundcard settings, as I cannot believe all the people who use a headset with 3.5mm connectors live like this!

Finners · 16 Sep 2016 at 18:01

I'm trying to think of a scenario where this is a problem. Why are you hearing your own voice when in normal use? I have an Asus sound card so will try for myself later on tonight and report back so we can try and work out if it's the sound card or headset.

ttaskmaster · 16 Sep 2016 at 19:54

Finners said:
I'm trying to think of a scenario where this is a problem.

You mean the echo?
I can't hear myself speak, because it's being crowded out by the 'echo' of the delay.

Finners said:
Why are you hearing your own voice when in normal use?

I favour closed-back headsets, so the game noise doesn't leak out and wake up the others I live with. In normal use it's like trying to talk with hands firmly clapped over your ears.
To counter this, I have always enabled either Listen To This Device and/or the Monitor feature. To date, I've always heard myself just fine, but this new setup is lagging. It's kinda hard to explain without you hearing it yourself, I suppose.

I know what I should be getting, because I've always had it. I just don't know how to achieve it with this kit.

Finners · 16 Sep 2016 at 20:07

Ok well I enabled listen to device in windows and firstly its hard to get over that awkwardness of hearing yourself haha how you put up with that I'll never know but on topic.

I have no delay, only thing I can think of trying is I use the unofficial uni drivers and on one of the versions you can download (the one I use) it mentions better latency. Maybe worth giving them a go

http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/

MrMD · 16 Sep 2016 at 20:28

You using any post processing effects for your mic via your DX2?

ttaskmaster · 16 Sep 2016 at 20:54

MrMD said:
You using any post processing effects for your mic via your DX2?

Nope, all disabled, unchecked and even the main button switched to OFF.

Finners said:
Ok well I enabled listen to device in windows and firstly its hard to get over that awkwardness of hearing yourself haha how you put up with that I'll never know but on topic.

See, I find it's no longer like I have earplugs in, as I can hear things around me. You do have to alter the sensitivity and mic volume/gain, but I can hear as if I've no longer got earphones on.
It's the reason why musicians have monitors when they play.

Finners said:
I have no delay, only thing I can think of trying is I use the unofficial uni drivers and on one of the versions you can download (the one I use) it mentions better latency.

I didn't think to even mention the drivers.
I'm already using Uni, the UNi-Xonar-1823 v1.80a-r3.

Do you think the earlier 1816/1822 v1.75a r2 would be better, since that's the 'recommended' one?

Finners · 16 Sep 2016 at 21:18

ttaskmaster said:
Do you think the earlier 1816/1822 v1.75a r2 would be better, since that's the 'recommended' one?

Cant hurt to try but would just be easy to plug your phones into the onboard I'd imagine and see if its the same.

Kei · 18 Sep 2016 at 18:42

This is where I use an ART MyMonitor which allows for monitoring a microphone via headphones whilst passing the mic onto the sound card and playing back audio from the sound card at the same time.

The Behringer MA400 is virtually identical in operation and much cheaper but lacks the battery operation and I think the output level isn't quite as good.

Most pro audio interfaces have a ZLM mode or socket which gives zero latency on inputs. (basically bridges the input straight to the output bypassing the software control)

ttaskmaster · 19 Sep 2016 at 11:25

Finners said:
Cant hurt to try but would just be easy to plug your phones into the onboard I'd imagine and see if its the same.

As I recall from briefly trying this out, there was no delay/echo using the on-board.
However there were other problems, mainly for anyone I was online with, plus it was just too quiet overall, hence adding the sound card.

Kei said:
This is where I use an ART MyMonitor which allows for monitoring a microphone via headphones whilst passing the mic onto the sound card and playing back audio from the sound card at the same time

12v power required... Think I could mod in a molex connector, since I don't have any spare mains sockets?

Kei said:
Most pro audio interfaces have a ZLM mode or socket which gives zero latency on inputs. (basically bridges the input straight to the output bypassing the software control)

Yes, yes, that's what I need!!!
ZLM - Zero Latency Monitoring?
Now I know a bit more about what I'm looking for, I'm seeing several threads complaining to Asus about how the Xonars don't have this feature while most other cards apparently do...

Some people mention Adobe Audition 3.0 as a possible fix... Any thoughts on that?

Kei · 19 Sep 2016 at 20:08

ttaskmaster said:
12v power required... Think I could mod in a molex connector, since I don't have any spare mains sockets?

Yes, yes, that's what I need!!!
ZLM - Zero Latency Monitoring?
Now I know a bit more about what I'm looking for, I'm seeing several threads complaining to Asus about how the Xonars don't have this feature while most other cards apparently do...

Some people mention Adobe Audition 3.0 as a possible fix... Any thoughts on that?

Theoretically, yes it is possible with the right parts but you'd have to make it up from a variety of parts. You could cheat and cut an old 3 pin fan to molex adaptor if you have one and use a screw down terminal block (sometimes called chocolate blocks) to link that section to another with the correct style plug for the mixer unit. The art mymonitor can run on 9V batteries but I think it would be quite expensive as I doubt they last more than a few days, plus you sacrifice output level dropping from 12V to 9V.

I use a yellowtec puc with ZLM, but I think they are a tad expensive to buy. Some of the focusrite kit does ZLM. Not sure on other models.

I've got no idea why anyone would suggest audition as that's just DAW software for capturing, editing and mixing sound. It only outputs any sound and plays when it is the window in focus, as soon as you switch tasks, it stops. I use it for capturing and restoring music from vinyl.

ttaskmaster · 20 Sep 2016 at 12:19

Kei said:
Theoretically, yes it is possible with the right parts but you'd have to make it up from a variety of parts.

Can I not just clip the AC/Adapter line and wire that to take 12v off the Molex?

So do most people game online without being able to hear themselves speak, or something?
Or do most soundcards have near-enough ZLM to allow decent monitoring?

Daniee · 28 Sep 2016 at 16:04

ttaskmaster said:
So do most people game online without being able to hear themselves speak, or something?

I get a slight delay on mine - I have an ASUS Xonar DGX. Sometimes it worse than others.

Have never found a way to make it less noticeable, but I just got used to it.

I found that if I turn it off, I end up shouting as I can't hear myself speak and then get complaints

ttaskmaster · 28 Sep 2016 at 16:06

Daniee said:
I found that if I turn it off, I end up shouting as I can't hear myself speak and then get complaints

^ This is the very reason I want monitoring - Waking wife at 2am, along with three shouty doggies in an otherwise silent rural neighbourhood is NOT good gaming... !!

Uriel · 28 Sep 2016 at 16:33

Yes I get shouty unless able to monitor. Had real problems on a Xonar D2 because of the delay.