Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers

dowie · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:34

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28206581

A Christian-run bakery that refused a customer's request to make a cake with a slogan supporting gay marriage could face a discrimination case in court.

Ashers Baking Company declined an order from a gay rights activist, asking for cake featuring the Sesame Street puppets, Bert and Ernie.

The customer also wanted the cake to feature the logo of a Belfast-based campaign group called "Queerspace".

The County Antrim firm could face legal action from the Equality Commission.

I'm normally pro gay rights but I think this is a bit of a knee jerk reaction from the equality commission... they've seen that some gay people have been refused something and have instantly gone on the attack.

this comment from a gay rights campaigner also misses the point IMO:

"If you are a company that is trading out there in the market place and someone comes to you, you can't pick and choose whether or not to fulfil that order based on their sexual orientation," Mr Boyd added.

The fact is they haven't refused to serve the customers on the basis of their sexual orientation - in fact I'm sure the gay couple can go back an order any number of baked goods from that shop without discrimination. What they've refused to do is to print a political message they don't agree with on a cake:

Ashers Baking Company declined an order from a gay rights activist, asking for cake featuring the Sesame Street puppets, Bert and Ernie.

The customer also wanted the cake to feature the logo of a Belfast-based campaign group called "Queerspace".

This is massively different to say a B&B refusing to let a gay couple stay and isn't simply refusing to serve gay people.

In fact gay marriage isn't even legal in Northern Ireland - so it seems odd that a baker can be taken to task by the equality commission for refusing to print a cake supporting an isssue that the Northern Ireland government itself actively discriminates on.

Would the equality commission step in if a catholic baker refused to print a wedding cake for a protestant orangeman complete with orange order symbols and a union flag? How about a Romanian baker being asked to print a cake for UKIP? White baker being asked to print a cake for the nation of Islam?

While I think there does need to be protection for minority groups being refused service in general I don't think independent business should be refused the right to turn down business when it directly involves supporting political/moral positions they're opposed to.

Dis86 · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:39

C'mon man, we all know you're not allowed free will and your own opinions. You must be open and accepting of everything and bow to the demand of every minority.

Maccapacca · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:42

Omg someone standing up for their beliefs. Burn them.

XeNoN89 · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:43

They can bake and not bake whatever cakes they want, I hope they win this case.

Janesy B · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:44

It's up to them.

Mynight · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:45

Hang on if a certain religion is allowed to not serve pork or alcahol products(I think that happened)then why shouldn't this other religion be allowed to do as they wish?

I'm not a homophobe for the record

just fed up of the minority intruding on the majorities ways.

itchy · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:45

Rainbow club at it again I see, now that is a surprise. NOT! :rolleyes:

Arsonist · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:46

OP, while you *sort* of make a point, I think your point is slightly skewed. Gay rights are not intrinsically a 'political message'. They have taken the form of an activist message who are promoting equality; I don't believe these are the same thing.
The bakers are refusing to fulfill the order based on the activists message, which is of gay rights and gay equality; ergo, they are refusing to fulfill the order based on discrimination of that equality.

This is discrimination, which comes under the discrimination act of 1995, which includes all services provided by any service, regardless of religious connotation or disposition.

Pretty sure if this went to court, the activists would win based on legislation.

RDM · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:47

XeNoN89 said:
They can bake and not bake whatever cakes they want, I hope they win this case.

I thought the law was fairly clear in that you can't discriminate on the basis of gender, sexuality, religion or race if you run a business?

Janesy B · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:50

It would be quite strange if the business was found guilty of discriminating against something that was not legal in that country...

ethan · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:50

@Mynight:

I'm not a homophobe for the record just fed up of the minority intruding on the majorities ways.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exactly. I'm fed up of this gay lot trying to force things down other peoples throats

XeNoN89 · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:51

RDM said:
I thought the law was fairly clear in that you can't discriminate on the basis of gender, sexuality, religion or race if you run a business?

But they aren't discriminating against anything, they are refusing to bake a cake because of the message that was requested to be on the cake, not because they are gay.

Mynight · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:51

ethan said:
@Mynight:

Exactly. I'm fed up of this gay lot trying to force things down other peoples throats

Lol well to jump on the brigade "that offends my sensativities! Therefore I'm suing you!"

Also

Pawnless Endgame · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:52

Tbh, I would be put off if I was told I couldn't buy a product due to a demographic. The bakery should really have added a disclaimer next to their opening times "we reserve the right refuse cake designs that are offensive [insert whatever] gay" etc to cover their backs.

Arsonist · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:52

ethan said:
@Mynight:

Exactly. I'm fed up of this gay lot trying to force things down other peoples throats

I think most of them willingly have things forced down their throats

dowie · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:52

Arsonist said:
OP, while you *sort* of make a point, I think your point is slightly skewed. Gay rights are not intrinsically a 'political message'. They have taken the form of an activist message who are promoting equality; I don't believe these are the same thing.
The bakers are refusing to fulfill the order based on the activists message, which is of gay rights and gay equality; ergo, they are refusing to fulfill the order based on discrimination of that equality.

No its still a political message - gay marriage isn't even legal in Northern Ireland, believe it or not some gay people don't actually support gay marriage. Campaigning for gay marriage is a political position... it might be something that the majority of gay people want but it doesn't define gay people as a group. Refusing to endorse/support gay marriage isn't any different to refusing to endorse/support Scottish Independence... if the majority of Scots support Independence then you could perhaps put a similar argument forward that a refusal to bake a pro Independent Scotland cake is discrimination against Scottish people and Scottish rights..... but in the end its actually just a refusal to be drawn into supporting a political position you don't agree with.

cheesyboy · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:54

Janesy B said:
It would be quite strange if the business was found guilty of discriminating against something that was not legal in that country...

Gay marriage is illegal, not gay cake.

FoxEye · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:54

Two things.

Why do gays have to bring their sexuality into *everything*?

"Hi, Mr Hairdresser, I'd like a haircut. Did I tell you I'm gay? Short back and sides, please. Thanks."
"Mr Employer, can I have a job at your company? You know I'm gay, right? Has your workforce had it's tolerance training? Will they all accept my gayness?"
"Mein Doktor, I'm having pains in my chest. Can you make sure the hospital is aware of my special needs, being gay?"
"Yes, this is gay dog. I'm like dog, but GAY."

*If* they didn't rub it in everyone's face, they could pretty much live however they wanted, and still be openly gay, just not some kind of conduit to the Plane of Gay, so that everyone is instantly struck by your gayness.

I'm sure it's the minority giving the majority a bad name, but there we are.

RDM · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:54

XeNoN89 said:
But they aren't discriminating against anything, they are refusing to bake a cake because of the message that was requested to be on the cake, not because they are gay.

They possibly shouldn't have taken the order, taken a deposit and then called the customer up the following day saying that they had reconsidered and wouldn't be able to bake the cake because of their Christian faith.

The Gay couple also need to face charges for the awful design of the cake.

Cosimo · 8 Jul 2014 at 20:54

Another case of the tail trying to wag the dog. It's up to the bakers as to what they produce/sell and in this case I hope that they can continue to do so without any form of action. .

Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers

Tea Drinker