Have I picked the right camera?

Mysterae_ · 15 Jan 2016 at 12:06

I'm thinking about getting a Sony A6000. At the moment I use my iphone (the horror!) for pictures due to the convenience and portability, but I want better quality in my images. My old Fuji FinePix is so slow at focusing and saving images that it's been not been used in a long time and will soon be recycled to a relative.

The subjects that I photograph at the moment range from my PC build logs and car restoration blog, and now with a 6 week old baby I foresee lots of pictures of him growing up. With these uses in mind, I want a camera that is smallish, fast focussing, great at close 'product' pictures, won't mind getting a bit dirty (oil, grime and baby sick (j/k)) and is intuitive enough so that the other half won't mind using it yet offer enough advancement to help progress both our picture taking.

With all that in mind and through my research so far, I have ruled out DSLRs mainly due to their size which I think will be unwieldy to use and lug around. Also the noise of the shutter I find irritating weirdly.

I've almost made my mind up on a Sony A6000 with the 16-50mm kit lens, 55-210mm lens and a prime lens of either 30mm F3.5 macro, 35mm F1.8 or 50mm F1.8. That brings the budget to around £700 depending on where I buy it from (HK distributor probably).

Does anybody have any suggestions on alternative mirrorless cameras and lenses, think I've picked the right camera or have any recommended lenses for my particular uses?

ethan · 15 Jan 2016 at 12:58

I'm biased but for me it was a Fuji XT10 with three Xf lenses.

http://improvephotography.com/34938/sony-a6000-vs-fuji-xt10/

http://www.fujirumors.com/fuji-fun-...-a7rii-and-why-i-now-love-fujifilm-even-more/

Mysterae_ · 15 Jan 2016 at 14:44

ethan said:
I'm biased but for me it was a Fuji XT10 with three Xf lenses.

http://improvephotography.com/34938/sony-a6000-vs-fuji-xt10/

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm off to read and watch some reviews

. Which lenses do you use?

MORE SPEED · 15 Jan 2016 at 14:50

With a kid running around, you need quick AF and good continuous AF, so in that area the Sony A6000 is excellent. Pair it with a quick prime, Sony 35mm springs to mind (OSS will help a bit with moving subjects) and you'll be onto a winner.

Flibster · 15 Jan 2016 at 15:00

A6000 was my choice. 16-50mm, 55-210mm, And now the Sony 50mm 1.8 and Sigma 30mm 2.8

Couple of 64gb cards so the most recent firmware can use XAVC-S video recording and all is good.

I looked at the m4/3 cameras and none really floated my boat. Shame, the lenses are very reasonable. Sony's are a touch expensive.

There is a new version of the A6000 due to land in Spring - apparently it was meant to be around last year, but Sony held it back. Sounds like it could be a insane little camera from the rumours.

D.P. · 15 Jan 2016 at 15:30

The A6000 is a great camera and you wont be disappointed. It is small but remember the lenses are the same size as DSLR lenses so the savings aren't that big in reality., if you want to go small I suggest to look at a m43 camera like an Olympus EPL-5 or 7. You get smaller lenses with that smaller sensor.

robj20 · 15 Jan 2016 at 15:50

A6100 will be out soon, should drop the price of the 6000. A7000 is due as well.

ethan · 15 Jan 2016 at 16:19

Mysterae_ said:
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm off to read and watch some reviews . Which lenses do you use?

I use the Xf 18-55 f2.8, 35mm Xf 1.4 prime and the 50-200. Contemplating the Xf 1.2 50mm but can't justify this really as I don't do enough portrait. I try to manage with the 35mm.
Lenses and Fuji: Image quality v specs: http://www.fujirumors.com/fuji-fun-...-a7rii-and-why-i-now-love-fujifilm-even-more/

I like Sony too (at least my Rx100 mii)

Andy90 · 15 Jan 2016 at 17:07

D.P. said:
The A6000 is a great camera and you wont be disappointed. It is small but remember the lenses are the same size as DSLR lenses so the savings aren't that big in reality., if you want to go small I suggest to look at a m43 camera like an Olympus EPL-5 or 7. You get smaller lenses with that smaller sensor.

I think you've got confused with the larger Sony lenses - The Sony A6000 is the size of the Nex range rather than the Sony Alpha range.

Putting them side by side -

Sony A6000 body - 160mm x 67mm x 45mm weight 344g 24 megapixels 6000 x 4000 Aps-c sensor (23.5mm x 15.6mm)

Olympus EPL5 body - 111mm x 64mm x 38mm weight 325g 16 megapixel 4608 x 3456 four thirds sensor (17.3mm x 13mm)

Olympus EPL7 body - 115mm x 67mm x 38mm weight 357g 16 megapixel 4608 x 3456 four thirds sensor (17.3mm x 13mm)

Not much in it size or weight wise. However the Sony trumps the Olympus sensor.

Lenses

the ones commonly sold in kit form with the A6000 are the Sony E 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 PZ OSS and the Sony E 55-210mm F4.5-6.3 OSS

Sony 16-50mm lens is 30mm long and weighs 116g
Sony 55-210mm lens is 108mm long and weighs 345g

lets see what Olympus makes near those lenses...

Seems they've made lots of a similar size, so lets go with the 2014 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 14-42mm F3.5-5.6 EZ and the, ah Olympus only do the Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50-200mm 1:2.8-3.5 SWD and that's not a fair comparison to the Sony, lets see.... ah the Panasonic H-fs045200e Lumix G Vario 45-200mm F4-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S (same variable aperture as the Sony)

Olympus 14-42 23mm long and weighs 91g
Panasonic 45-200 100mm long and weighs 380g

not much in the sizes and weights overall.

Side by side spec comparison of the A6000, EPL5 and EPL7

http://www.dpreview.com/products/co...=oly_epl5&products=oly_epl7&sortDir=ascending

Side by side size comparison of the A6000 and EPL7

http://camerasize.com/compare/#535,565

Mysterae_ · 15 Jan 2016 at 17:53

Thanks for the replies, much to think about.

MORE SPEED said:
With a kid running around, you need quick AF and good continuous AF, so in that area the Sony A6000 is excellent. Pair it with a quick prime, Sony 35mm springs to mind (OSS will help a bit with moving subjects) and you'll be onto a winner.

That's what I was thinking, and for short video taking too.

Flibster said:
A6000 was my choice. 16-50mm, 55-210mm, And now the Sony 50mm 1.8 and Sigma 30mm 2.8

Couple of 64gb cards so the most recent firmware can use XAVC-S video recording and all is good.

I looked at the m4/3 cameras and none really floated my boat. Shame, the lenses are very reasonable. Sony's are a touch expensive.

There is a new version of the A6000 due to land in Spring - apparently it was meant to be around last year, but Sony held it back. Sounds like it could be a insane little camera from the rumours.

Your choice in lenses is the same as mine, seems a good selection. Thanks for the info about memory cards, I was going to look in to them once I'd decided on a camera. I've read the rumours about the successor to the A6000. The A6000 has already had a price drop recently and Sony are giving £50 cashback on it too. Don't think I'll be able to wait but knowing my luck it'll be out just as I buy my camera. I would think it'll be at the A6000's original price too, meaning I'd have to wait to get further lenses.

D.P. said:
The A6000 is a great camera and you wont be disappointed. It is small but remember the lenses are the same size as DSLR lenses so the savings aren't that big in reality., if you want to go small I suggest to look at a m43 camera like an Olympus EPL-5 or 7. You get smaller lenses with that smaller sensor.

Interesting that you mentioned Olympus, I watched a youtube vid where the A6000 is pitted against the Olympus E-M5 II and Fujifilm X-T10 (see bottom of this post). The Olympus won overall marginally and dissuaded me from the X-T10 due to it's quirks. I'll be looking in to the Olympus range shortly.

robj20 said:
A6100 will be out soon, should drop the price of the 6000. A7000 is due as well.

Yes, as before not sure how long a wait that'll be or it's cost.

ethan said:
I use the Xf 18-55 f2.8, 35mm Xf 1.4 prime and the 50-200. Contemplating the Xf 1.2 50mm but can't justify this really as I don't do enough portrait. I try to manage with the 35mm.
Lenses and Fuji: http://www.fujirumors.com/fuji-fun-...-a7rii-and-why-i-now-love-fujifilm-even-more/

I like Sony too (at least my Rx100 mii)

Thanks for that, I'll read that shortly. Is the X-T10 as quirky as this review makes out?

Thanks for the replies, do let me know if there's anything to think about!

Mysterae_ · 15 Jan 2016 at 17:55

Andy90 said:
lots of info!

Thanks for that, good comparison info for my shortlist

.

D.P. · 15 Jan 2016 at 18:09

no, I'm comparing a 1.5X crop sensor system with the 2.0X crop m43 system
I never said the camera bodies are any different in size, that is largely dictated by ergonomics it is the lenses that differ. But your comparison of lenses is entirely flawed as you aren't taking into account focal length differences.

Panasonic GM1 98.5 x 54.9 x 30.4mm, 204gram with batteries and card
Panasonic 12-32mm, 70g
Panasonic 40-140mm, 265g
Panasonic 14mm f/2.5 55g

Sony has started produced smaller lenses for NEX, the 16-50mm is quite the engineering marvel, but if small and light was paramount it wouldn't be my first choice of system.

To back up my point, the Sony 55-210mm weighs 345g, the Nikon 55-200mm weighs 335g. You just don't get those weight savings compared to a DSLR.

Andy90 · 15 Jan 2016 at 20:11

You said "if you want to go small I suggest to look at a m43 camera like an Olympus EPL-5 or 7". It seems plain enough English to me.

What I showed is that size wise there wasn't much in it or weight wise between the A6000 and the two Olympus Cameras you suggested.

Why is my comparison of lenses entirely flawed? The focal length differences are miniscule. I could easily say the same thing about the Panasonic 12-32mm you've just mentioned, it clearly isn't the same focal length as the Sony 16-50mm, so it cannot be compared to it.

I find it actually quite impressive of Sony to make a 1.5 APS-C camera about the same size as a smaller sensor 2.0 crop M43 system.

D.P. · 15 Jan 2016 at 21:38

I was referring to the entire system I clung lenses, not the dimensions of the amera, which as I stay, dictated by ergonomics. Even so you can get an m43 camera at half the weight.

140mm in m43 is almost the same as 200mm on APS-C. As you can see, if you really want small and light the m43 system will be about 60% of the weight. A small m43 setup fits in the trouser pockets that makes a difference.

I have nothing against the A6000, it's a great camera. I just think it sits in an awkward space. Lens are the same as DSLR due to the sensor, see the 55-200mm nikon comparison. I think most people would be better served by a small DSLR, look at the Canon D1000, or going for a m43 sytem.

The Sony nex camera are mostly all great, no issues with them at all, they perform really well. Just the size-weight issue is mostly a myth. This would be even more tee if Nikon or Canon really wanted to.make small lenses, you see a few pancakes and collapsing kit lenses now.

ethan · 16 Jan 2016 at 00:12

Is the X-T10 as quirky as this review makes out?

Not in my experience. If you read the manual it will tell you about the flash and if you haven't read it you can hardly blame the camera for missing a few shots? I don't know if this would still be the case when adding a separate flash unit though, as I haven't had that pleasure yet?

Referring to the "quirks", it has been said that Fuji may have been trying to be retro for retros sake. The video failed to mention that the shutter mode which involved rotating the dial and delving in to the menu system was optional and one of two systems (electronic as opposed to mechanical). Regarding the setting of the aperture, choose a lens with an aperture ring when available. Is this really a criticism ? I don't know if other camera systems always provide an aperture ring either? Other Fuji and different camera systems users here can quite possibly elaborate on this later?

I did notice however that some of the responses to that video claimed the following:

+Philip Foster They are not Fuji fans saw a so called review they did of the XT-1 v an Olympus was one if the worst attempts ever of trying to put a camera down (the XT-)1 by acting as though he could not use it and tumbling around. I think they get kickbacks from Olympus so after that I never took anything they say seriously again
Reply · 3

Philipp Kaempfer 3 months ago:
+Prometheus I saw that review. I'm not sure they did it on purpose, although I had a hard time believing that anybody "not at all new to photography" could use a camera as "inefficiently" as Tony did with the X-T1.

It for sure wasn't fair, putting up a camera he didn't even bother to switch on once before the review against a camera he knew very well - and as he stated - loved very much. At least not if the question is: "Which camera is easier for me to use...?"
Reply ·

Click to expand...

and finally

John Genovese 2 months ago
Hi Tony, I'm confused! In the X-T10 Training Tutorial you said that it was your favorite of the small mirrorless cameras. In this video, you pick the E-M5 II over it. Did I miss something? Do you have a new favorite

Click to expand...

Mysterae_ · 16 Jan 2016 at 10:27

Yes ethan, I watched the training video for the X-T10 (and others) and I realised I'd dismissed it too early. The horizon level will help greatly, as will the quick auto switch for when someone not familiar with it uses it (relatives or when you pass it to someone). Plus the lenses are supposedly cheaper. The non-default (and kinda hidden) High Performance Mode was interesting; I wonder how many reviewers assessed the camera with this off? The video quality was probably it's only let down, but I don't know how much we would use this feature. It's reassuring that Fuji are still updating the firmware, but the camera isn't even a year old yet so you'd hope they would.

The training video for the A6000 didn't dissuade me either, apart from the need to sign up and install (and pay again) for certain functionality that should be standard. The lack of a horizon level could be a pain when out and about. With the A6000's successor being nigh it's difficult to shake the feeling that I'll be missing out on improvements, but it may be out of my reach budget wise and why wait...

ethan · 16 Jan 2016 at 15:41

Fuji are very good at adding improvements and enhancements by way of firmware/upgrades. See Fuji X users thread

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18570404

Janesy B · 21 Jan 2016 at 17:58

Whatever the improvements are on the A6000 replacement, you can guarantee that it will be twice as much money.

I bought a Sony A6000 and it's good enough to replace my Canon 70D for everything apart from motorsports (Sony telephotos are £££££). The space saving isn't great when paired with some lenses, especially the 18-105mm f/4 (but argueably it saves carring 2 lenses about) but the 35mm f1.8 and 20mm F2.8 pancake lens are both cheap, light and good quality.

I was sceptical coming from a DSLR but I find the viewfinder in the Sony to be perfectly usable and the AF is as good as any crop DSLR I've ever used. Only downside is the battery life, 300 shots as opposed to the 1500-2000 I am used to getting out of my 70D. I wouldn't pair the kit lens with the 55-210 as neither are great quality or particularly fast, the 18-105mm f/4 would be a better bet if you didn't need the extra reach and then a maco lens for your PC shots.

Mysterae_ · 23 Jan 2016 at 12:33

I've definitely decided on the Sony A6000, now just need to figure out out lenses I should get.

Janesy, thanks for your interesting post, certainly made me think. Is the 18-105mm lens that much better than both the 16-50 and 55-210mm lenses? From the reviews I've read and watched the 18-105mm has considerable (although correctable) distortion. The size of the 18-105mm would rule out certain uses when space is an issue (such as under the car). As the cost between getting or not getting the camera with the kit lens is so small, I will get the 16-50mm. This will also appease the other half as it's not big or complicated to use.

The lens short list is:

- 16-50mm (kit lens)
- 55-210mm (kind of kit lens)
- 18-105mm (power zoom)
- 30mm F3.5 (macro)
- 35mm F1.8 (prime)
- 50mm F1.8 (prime)

I don't have the budget for all of them and thinking I might hold off getting a prime lens later once I've figured out what I'd use the most.

As Janesy suggested, the A6000 with 16-50mm kit lens, 18-105mm and 30mm macro lenses just about fits my budget (with a squeeze!) and is an option I'm thinking of.

Janesy B · 23 Jan 2016 at 21:05

At the very long end the 18-105 has pinushion distortion, however I shoot RAW and LR5 has the correction profiles so it's not a problem for me.

I found it the best compromose as it's a constant f/4 and I will use the power zoom for video. I have the Sony 35mm f/1.8 and that's a good lens, does struggle with CA slightly in high contrast situations when wider than f/2.8 but nothing that can't be corrected.