Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

RaohNS · 31 May 2016 at 11:02

scorza said:
I saw his remain argument on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday. He had no love for the EU at all, his argument was that we should stay in because if we Leave then the EU will implode and take us with is. Someone should have challenged him on this idea that we can negotiate with the EU, we all know that once the referendum is over the EU will plough ahead with its project. I don't see any evidence that the EC is willing to listen to any dissenting voices.

An authoritarian entity cannot tolerate or allow dissent.

I like him. He has a lot of knowledge. Its not for me to denounce it or say he is misusing it but he has said several times that the EU isn't interested in negotiation. Why do you think he was hurriedly ejected from office?

A principled person. I like that, almost regardless of what the topic of principle is.

FuriousGeorge · 31 May 2016 at 11:12

kitkat2015 said:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/67...rules-Britain-House-of-Commons-Chris-Grayling

And you still want to vote IN.

Crazy

Crazy is wanting to believe anything Grayling, the most incompetent MP there has been for years, says.

kitkat2015 · 31 May 2016 at 11:16

FuriousGeorge said:
Crazy is wanting to believe anything Grayling, the most incompetent MP there has been for years, says.

Why would he lie? What has he got to gain?

Unlike Cameron who's talking through his a hole.

He'll be so smug if the IN vote wins & you'll all be sorry.

FuriousGeorge · 31 May 2016 at 11:21

kitkat2015 said:
Why would he lie? What has he got to gain?

Unlike Cameron who's talking through his a hole.

He'll be so smug if the IN vote wins & you'll all be sorry.

Remind us why again? Are ZE GERMANS gonna take over?

Tefal · 31 May 2016 at 11:25

Avenged7Fold said:
Also, what authority does Stephan Hawking have that i appealing to?

He is one of the most intelligent men on earth, discounting his opinion because you dont agree with it is ridiculous. His opinion is worth more than most because he is capable to understand more than most.

Wpuld you take medical advice from him?

RaohNS · 31 May 2016 at 11:25

Moses said:
There is almost certainly going to be a load of negotiation in the near future. The Eurozone countries want/need closer integration (for that bloc) to make the Eurozone sustainable... and that necessitates treaty change... and every country has to agree to treaty change, so clearly there will be negotiation.

I agree absolutely. Its an inevitable consequence. The issue I foresee is how does the EU negotiate in order to preserve itself, grow and maintain its power structure. It boggles the mind the think of the incompatibility of that task. Its never worked before on the same basis (please don't try to link with how the US started as that is entirely different and includes one key fact of change through violent uprising).

The Eurozone does need better support. Its mechanisms are terrible to put it mildly and it has too much control over individual nations. Blanket approaches do not work.

helpimcrap · 31 May 2016 at 11:26

Had somebody from Wales ring me up to ask how I'm voting in the election....

First time I've had that.

helpimcrap · 31 May 2016 at 11:27

Tefal said:
Wpuld you take medical advice from him?

Over anybody except a qualified doctor yes.... Lol

Tefal · 31 May 2016 at 11:28

Moses said:
There is almost certainly going to be a load of negotiation in the near future. The Eurozone countries want/need closer integration (for that bloc) to make the Eurozone sustainable... and that necessitates treaty change... and every country has to agree to treaty change, so clearly there will be negotiation.

Well not strictly true they can remove countries rights to vote.

Theyre looking at doing it to poland and hungry right now.

I think we're going to see over the next few years the scrapping of unanimous agreements and a move to majority agreements

Tunney · 31 May 2016 at 11:28

kitkat2015 said:
Why would he lie? What has he got to gain?

If Grayling isn't the most incompetent minister in living memory then he's at least part of the conversation. Poor old Michael Gove has had to spent most of his time as Justice Secretary reversing the mess that Grayling left.

To lie, you need to know the truth. I doubt Grayling knows or cares what the truth is.

Macro · 31 May 2016 at 11:30

Speaking of economics I was doing some browsing this morning and stumbled across the below. Now I'm still undecided although tending to remain for a whole raft of reasons - not least no one seems to be able to give me some good, concrete reasons why we should leave other than a vague "immigration, economics and in charge of our own destiny".

As a fairly neutral party I have to say the level on unbiased informed information is appallingly scarce for such an important decision. I really don't feel I could rely on pretty much anything from either side at this point in which case the status quo is going to get my vote as a know quantity. Happy to be convinced otherwise by sensible facts and not "lol immigration and we send all our tax to europe".

helpimcrap · 31 May 2016 at 11:33

FuriousGeorge said:
Remind us why again? Are ZE GERMANS gonna take over?

Quite possibly.

They're already talking about an EU army.... And Angela Merkel is doing a better job of running/conquering Europe than Hitler did. I'm a little bit cynical. Lol

I'm not really bothered about the immigration. Immigration in the right way is great. I'm bothered about the lack of democracy in running Europe.... Slippery slope.

Turkey will join the EU soon because they had special privileges because of the cockup the EU made if the migration crisis. Not in 30yrs like David Cameron says. He's just looking out for his own pension and family who own a lot of land and probably get paid by the EU not to farm it or something.

Tefal · 31 May 2016 at 11:36

Moses said:
Actually no. They can't affect a country's right to sign treaties. That's above the EU.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV:l33500

But a country would be bound by any law passed by the EU council would they not?

That wouldn't need treaty change and they can remove that right to vote

The sanctioning mechanism allows the Council to suspend certain rights deriving from the application of the treaties to the EU country in question, including the voting rights of that country in the Council. In that case the ’serious breach’ must have persisted for some time.

McBain · 31 May 2016 at 11:39

RaohNS said:
So you don't know why it went not so well?

There is a lot of further reading you can do on that particular element. For a snapshot, watch his Oxford Union address. Superb.

Your post commented on why it didn't go so well.

Chris Wilson · 31 May 2016 at 11:44

Why are the EU discussing removing Hungary and Poland's right to vote? They are both under democratically elected governments.

scorza · 31 May 2016 at 11:46

Tunney said:
If Grayling isn't the most incompetent minister in living memory then he's at least part of the conversation. Poor old Michael Gove has had to spent most of his time as Justice Secretary reversing the mess that Grayling left.

To lie, you need to know the truth. I doubt Grayling knows or cares what the truth is.

Yet I know people who live in his Epsom constituency, non-Tory people, who say he's a really good MP and they actually quite like him :eek:

A lot of the hate seems to stem from the fact he was the first non-lawyer to be appointed Lord Chancellor since the 17th century. He tried to reform a failing, incompetent legal establishment but the government ducked the fight in the end.

Chris Wilson · 31 May 2016 at 11:48

Does the EU, as a whole, have any written and cohesive strategy for how they will handle the migrant crisis, both physically and financially? If so, what is it?

I asked several days ago as to where I could find figures for how many illegal migrants have been physically deported from Germany. I got no answers at all. Despite my best attempts I can see no reason to believe none have.

Are there EU figures available, or are would they have to be sourced from individual EU member states?

Thanks. I see how fond the Remainers are for wanting and citing statistics, hopefully they will be able to show these simple ones to me?

Judgeneo · 31 May 2016 at 11:51

Macro said:
Speaking of economics I was doing some browsing this morning and stumbled across the below. Now I'm still undecided although tending to remain for a whole raft of reasons - not least no one seems to be able to give me some good, concrete reasons why we should leave other than a vague "immigration, economics and in charge of our own destiny".

As a fairly neutral party I have to say the level on unbiased informed information is appallingly scarce for such an important decision. I really don't feel I could rely on pretty much anything from either side at this point in which case the status quo is going to get my vote as a know quantity. Happy to be convinced otherwise by sensible facts and not "lol immigration and we send all our tax to europe".

Source for those figures? The health one in particular seems a bit over the top. I've only heard people saying they would fill the £3b current hole in the budget.

In reality, the leave campaign hasn't committed to any cuts at all, they've just listed many examples of things that we COULD do.

helpimcrap · 31 May 2016 at 11:57

Interesting. I was looking at unemployment rates and this was quite interesting.

Unemployment is at 10yr low however that percentage is perhaps a little diluted by the labour coming into the country?

BBC say:
"The number of Britons in work increased by 278,000 in the three months to the end of December, to 28.28 million, while for non-UK nationals, the figure rose by 254,000 to 3.22 million."

We have a 5% unemployment, I wonder how many of those would be in work if there was more of a limit and expectation on immigration?

Like I say - uncontrolled immigration is bad, controlled immigration is great for the economy.

robfosters · 31 May 2016 at 12:01

scorza said:
Yet I know people who live in his Epsom constituency, non-Tory people, who say he's a really good MP and they actually quite like him

A lot of the hate seems to stem from the fact he was the first non-lawyer to be appointed Lord Chancellor since the 17th century. He tried to reform a failing, incompetent legal establishment but the government ducked the fight in the end.

And I can tell you from personal experience that the whole industry is now broken. Hundreds of firms closed down and people made jobless as they wouldn't be able to cope with these changes, only to find them withdrawn at the last minute. They lost their jobs for nothing.

A complete and utter disaster. Peoples lives ruined for nothing.

Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union

Leave the European Union