Halos and Heroes

Soldato
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http://www.pitpass.com/56957/Halos-and-Heroes

Thank Great Zeus that the halo will not be used, at least not in 2017. The only two F1 drivers whose lives it might have saved are Alan Stacey and Tom Pryce. Always assuming that you could transport current technology back to 1960 and 1977 respectively.
Both were freak accidents and the problem with freak accidents is that you cannot legislate against them. That is why they are called 'freak'.
Take the case of Riccardo Paletti who drove for Osella in 1982. The team was poorly funded and Riccardo qualified for only two of the eight races he attempted. In Canada, Didier Pironi stalled his Ferrari as the race started and other drivers were involved in various levels of excitement as they avoided the stationary car. Paletti, starting from the back row was unsighted, and was accelerating as he hit the back of the stalled Ferrari at around 110 mph.
Repeat that with current cars and Riccardo might have been unscathed. It was a freak accident.
In 2009, Felipe Massa was injured when an errant suspension spring from another car hit his helmet. Perhaps a halo could have prevented that, or perhaps it could have deflected the spring so it hit Felipe in the chest and killed him. There is no way of knowing.
Perhaps a halo might have saved the lives of Henry Surtees and Justin Wilson, but neither were racing in Formula One, the only category for which it has been suggested.
Talk of the halo seemed to follow the death of Jules Bianchi, but nothing would have saved him. He suffered axonal diffuse injury because of massive deceleration. It is why babies who are severely shaken suffer brain injury or death.
The halo has been put on the back burner for further evaluation and possible introduction in 2018. In my view it is an idea which should be consigned to oblivion. Representatives of the drivers have welcomed the halo, but one wonders on what grounds.
It cannot be historical precedence because there is none, the case for the halo has been invented. Alexander Wurz, of the GPDA, is quoted as saying that it is a case of 'business first and safety second.'
Sebastian Vettel is reported to have said, 'We don't like the looks of it, but I don't think there's anything which justifies death.'
What deaths is he talking about? There aren't any. It is a made-up sentiment which makes a good sound bite. The case for the halo does not stand scrutiny.
Lewis Hamilton says that he was persuaded by a 'presentation', presumably on behalf of the halo. It would be interesting to know what was said.
As for business above safety, it is business (the trackside and television audience) which has made Vettel a multi-millionaire. Nobody actually forced him to race cars.
Other comments from Lewis Hamilton suggest that drivers expect a canopy in the future.
Grand Prix racing has always been open cockpit racing. You accept that or you don't do it. Every form of motor sport has an element of risk. If you are risk-averse, you can always take up knitting, or golf.
I am of an age to remember when fatal accidents in motor racing were regrettably common. Jim Clark died not because his car left the track, but because he hit a tree on the infield at Hockenheim, where trees had no business to be. Motor racing eliminated unnecessary dangers, but it cannot eliminate danger itself.
When Jackie Stewart began his campaign for safety he met resistance from some of his fellow drivers. They saw themselves as macho heroes and their bravado was essential to pulling babes.
We look back at the death toll in motor racing with horror, but at the time it was accepted. Drivers knew the risks and still went racing. Perhaps two world wars had inured people to the possibility of sudden death. Then there were all the illnesses one had to live through. In a span of four months my brother and I had whooping cough, measles with pneumonia and chicken pox. It could have been worse, it might have been polio, there had been an epidemic.
When I was a teenager a friend of mine drowned when he went swimming in a river known for its fierce tides. Our reaction was that he had been incredibly stupid. Today, there would have been tributes paid, and flowers and teddy bears on the river bank.
Attitude to risk has changed and in the main that is a good thing; there are now far fewer industrial accidents and far fewer casualties per vehicle-mile. We have seen massive advances in health care and medicine. All this is to the good, but there is still a place in the world for risk and sometimes that means sport.
As the world has become safer so we have seen the growth of extreme sports like base jumping, cage fighting and Mixed Martial Arts. Not only do rock climbers seek the most difficult climbs, but some have taken to going up the sides of skyscrapers with minimal equipment.
Red Bull has created a market for itself by sponsoring a range of audacious sports which emphasise risk and an adrenaline rush. There is an audience for risk because we spectators wish that we had the gonads to do it.
Recently a stuntman jumped from a plane at 25,000 feet without a parachute. Follow that.
Formula One's response has been to propose making already safe cars into machines that are even further removed from everyday experience. Saloon car racing is not safe simply because cars have a roof. For years now tin tops have been built around roll cages which are massively strong spaceframes around which body panels are assembled and which provide structural integrity which the base cars do not. There are still injuries and fatalities, often as a result of freak accidents.
A racing driver once seemed the natural successor to a fighter pilot, he was brave, skilled and dashing, an heroic figure. A current airline pilot may be seen as having an interesting job, but it is just that, a job. Only occasionally do they have to muster their training as when the crew of US Airways Flight 1549 put down their Airbus A320 in the Hudson River, following a massive bird strike, which itself was a freak occurrence.
Tens of thousands of flights had safely taken off from LaGuardia airport before that incident in 2009, and tens of thousands have done so since. The incidence was a freak.
Now that the halo has been mooted, it is in the air and if a driver is injured or killed in the future, the absence of the halo could lead to law suits even though there is no historical precedent to show they are needed.
Lawyers acting for the family of Jules Bianchi are suing everyone in sight except the owner of Suzuka (Honda) and the organisers of the 2014 Japanese GP. To do so they would have to make a case in Japan whereas it is easier to do so in London.
Everyone who can be blamed in an English court is being blamed though that does not include the circuit owner or the race organisers. The one person who is not being blamed is Jules Bianchi himself, who made a mistake by driving too fast for the conditions. Every other driver negotiated the same corner, in the same conditions, without leaving the road.
We live in an era of blame culture where people who make mistakes are victims. I think of my friend who drowned because he swam in a river which nobody else dreamed of swimming in. We did not think he was a victim, we thought he was plain wrong.

Let us consider the case of Jochen Rindt who was killed during practice for the 1970 Italian GP at Monza. As Jochen approached the Parabolica, the drive shaft to the right hand front brake on his Lotus 72 sheered. That was a fault with the car.
Jochen's Lotus hit the guard rail on the inside of the bend, but there was at least one bolt missing from the rail so it gave when it should have deflected Rindt back on the track. The nose of his Lotus went under the rail and Jochen suffered massive injuries to his legs, which may have proven fatal. There was blame to be laid at the organisers.
What actually killed Jochen was the fact that he attached only four of his five safety straps, he was more comfortable not attaching the crotch strap. On impact, he slid forward at speed and was strangled by the top part of his safety harness. That was a result of Rindt's conscious decision.
Did Jochen die because of a fault in his car, because the circuit owner had been negligent, or because he attached only four of the five straps on his safety harness, thus rendering it ineffective. There is a debate for every pub lawyer.
Now imagine the field day lawyers could have if a driver is injured in 2017 without a halo which, in my view, is an invented precaution.
Grand Prix racing has always been open cockpit, it is part of its appeal. Nobody forces drivers to race in F1 and become massively wealthy. They are not the child jockeys in Middle Eastern camel racing. If we have the halo and, possibly. the canopy, what is next, the ejector seat?
I despise the blame culture with its victims and tributes and flowers and teddy bears. I want heroes, not wimps.

Spoiler tags to hide a wall of text. I would read it on the site as the formatting looks terrible here and I really don't want to reformat it all.

Sums it up perfectly for me. Motorsport is dangerous, drives are not held at gunpoint to race and get paid millions.

"I want heros not wimps"

What say you?
 
Soldato
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Polio, dead siblings and laughing at friends who die tragically - sounds like a psychopath.

A full canopy, assuming such a thing was technically possible, would not effect my enjoyment of racing. Having the Massa who nearly won in 2008 at his best all through the Alonso years would have improved my enjoyment. I don't care how big their balls are, I just want them racing on the edge for as long as possible.
 

Deleted member 651465

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Deleted member 651465

Sebastian Vettel is reported to have said, 'We don't like the looks of it, but I don't think there's anything which justifies death.'
What deaths is he talking about? There aren't any. It is a made-up sentiment which makes a good sound bite. The case for the halo does not stand scrutiny.

As a chartered safety officer, if I had £1 for every person that said something along the lines of "it's always been this way" or "we've never had an accident.. why change?" I'd be able to buy a majority share in Mercedes F1.

Past experience should not soley influence a decision where the risk can practicably be removed or reduced. For instance, I don't want a HALO or a screen, but if it means preventing a serious injury or death later down the line, I'm all for it.

Risk is inherent in motorsport (that's a given) but honestly... that article is the most one-sided and bias crap I've read.
 
Man of Honour
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As a chartered safety officer, if I had £1 for every person that said something along the lines of "it's always been this way" or "we've never had an accident.. why change?" I'd be able to buy a majority share in Mercedes F1.

Past experience should not soley influence a decision where the risk can practicably be removed or reduced. For instance, I don't want a HALO or a screen, but if it means preventing a serious injury or death later down the line, I'm all for it.

Risk is inherent in motorsport (that's a given) but honestly... that article is the most one-sided and bias crap I've read.

this, although i would be perfectly happy with a fighter jet style canopy. halo looks rubbish and blocks more for both spectator and driver.

although i think much of f1 is very outdated and needs an overhaul to keep and attract new fans. they should have a massive technical and sporting regulation overhaul in say 6 years time, when it can be well planned for several years then gives teams several more years to adjust before introduction.
 
Caporegime
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This is what I don't understand. F1 should be approaching Northrop Grumman, Boeing and BAE systems and asking for their expertise in creating a proper canopy. They seem to want to do it themselves, as if it's some form of weakness. These companies have been doing it for 70 years and manage to make Jet Fighter canopies that don't distort a pilots view, don't suddenly become opaque when they have a bit of rain on them and have quick release mechanisms for emergency access.
 
Soldato
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This is what I don't understand. F1 should be approaching Northrop Grumman, Boeing and BAE systems and asking for their expertise in creating a proper canopy. They seem to want to do it themselves, as if it's some form of weakness. These companies have been doing it for 70 years and manage to make Jet Fighter canopies that don't distort a pilots view, don't suddenly become opaque when they have a bit of rain on them and have quick release mechanisms for emergency access.

That's because they aren't travelling between 40-220mph very often.

They also don't have much in the way of wheels in their line of fire, more likely rather gooey birds.

I'd be surprised if any specialist company designed a canopy for motorsport and it ended up having anything like the same properties as one the same company designed for any plane.
 
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Man of Honour
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Birds aren't very gooeyat high speeds and I would bet they're designed with far higher energy impacts than wheel energy at like 200mph.
 
Soldato
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Birds aren't very gooeyat high speeds and I would bet they're designed with far higher energy impacts than wheel energy at like 200mph.

A tyre, wheel, hub, and brakes? Tyres alone are pretty heavy (I know, I used to shift them about) and even in F1 where weight is critical I'd bet they're only 1/6 of the weight of the assembly - each wheel is probably one of the highest masses in the car.

I don't care how fast a plane is travelling, it would take a mammoth bird to create as much energy as a full wheel assembly hitting a windshield at 200mph, and I'm pretty sure if a bird could create that much energy then they would be of the flightless variety.
 
Man of Honour
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then you havent done the maths

0.5MVsqr

so say 60kilos at 200mph is 8400j
1 kilo at 600mph is 71824j

so yeah a bird at a decent speed has far more kenetic energy, as speed is squared.

what a cockpit can withstand i have no idea, but as f1 have been thinking about using them, then they must be upto standard.

edit f22 canopy is deisgned to withstand a 1.8kilo bird at 400mph or 32000j
 
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Soldato
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From the link.
"Both were freak accidents and the problem with freak accidents is that you cannot legislate against them. That is why they are called 'freak'."

I think it's a waste of time and money.
 
Soldato
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then you havent done the maths

0.5MVsqr

so say 60kilos at 200mph is 8400j
1 kilo at 600mph is 71824j

so yeah a bird at a decent speed has far more kenetic energy, as speed is squared.

That's fact, but a bird isn't a solid object, which the maths doesn't account for. A wheel very much is a solid object.



From the link.
"Both were freak accidents and the problem with freak accidents is that you cannot legislate against them. That is why they are called 'freak'."

I think it's a waste of time and money.

Massa was within an inch of his life and Justin Wilson's life was also taken by being hit on the head by an object. I'm not saying Wilson's life would have been saved had the halo/canopy been in place, but it would have given him one hell of a chance. Massa would almost certainly have suffered less serious injuries too.

They were freak incidents too of course, but how many incidents does it take for it not to become a freak? I know of 5 drivers in single-seaters who have either lost their lives or been seriously injured through head injuries in the past decade. Massa, Bianchi, Wheldon, Wilson and Surtees. Granted a halo or canopy would almost certainly not have helped Wilson or Bianchi, but if just one of their lives was saved (or in Massa's case less serious) then it would have been worth it.

The people arguing against this are choosing the arguments they want and discarding others.

There is zero reason not to give the drivers more protection. Zero. "It looks ****" is not a valid argument when it comes to life.
 
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Soldato
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Do you think a bird at 600mph poses as much of a danger as a full wheel assembly at 200mph?

I can't quantify it and no science will due to all manner of possibilities, and of course a large bird at 600mph is potentially massively dangerous, but in my mind I can't imagine they're equal.

Protecting a fighter pilot from a bird is surely easier than protecting a driver from a wheel. Did you see the damage the wheel did to Lowndes' car at Bathurst a few years back? It caved in the safety cell. And that was just the wheel - not the hub or brakes - and at a much lower speed.
 
Associate
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And not one mention of Senna! Surely he'd still be alive if a 'halo' was fitted!
I like the idea of it in theory and if it does prove to save a life, wonderful!
But the executions so far look awful!
 
Man of Honour
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Do you think a bird at 600mph poses as much of a danger as a full wheel assembly at 200mph?

I can't quantify it and no science will due to all manner of possibilities, and of course a large bird at 600mph is potentially massively dangerous, but in my mind I can't imagine they're equal.

Protecting a fighter pilot from a bird is surely easier than protecting a driver from a wheel. Did you see the damage the wheel did to Lowndes' car at Bathurst a few years back? It caved in the safety cell. And that was just the wheel - not the hub or brakes - and at a much lower speed.

Yes it poses far more danger, look at the kentic energy each has. The whole itssquishy thing is utterly silly and makes no sense.

And those figures for f1 are geburouse, not many accidents at 300mph and a wheel assembly is far less than 60kilos. Having a google a wheel and tyre is around 20-25kilos. Brakes won't add much.
 
Soldato
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Yes it poses far more danger, look at the kentic energy each has. The whole itssquishy thing is utterly silly and makes no sense.

And those figures for f1 are geburouse, not many accidents at 300mph and a wheel assembly is far less than 60kilos. Having a google a wheel and tyre is around 20-25kilos. Brakes won't add much.

The brakes and hub. Pretty sure F1 brakes will weight a bit with the forces involved too. Of course the disks themselves have many holes drilled in them for weight saving and temperature regulation, but I bet the rest of the brake assembly will weight a fair bit in F1 terms.

But you're right, there aren't many accidents at 300mph.

Why is the structure of the object not important? Mass is one thing, but the properties of the object must be a huge contributing factor. Obvious exaggeration and not relevant, but a drop into water can be fatal, but it's going to be a heck of a lot less messy than a drop onto concrete, irrespective of the speeds involved.
 
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Soldato
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To be fair, the canopy wouldn't have to completely shrug off the hit, the shape of it alone will deflect the object enough to keep the driver safe even if it does buckle or shatter.

There's a video of a chicken being fired at a F16 canopy somewhere at silly speed.

Oh and a f16 canopy has already had a test back in 2011

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/14199629/formula-1-engineers-test-fighter-jet-canopy

140mph, 20kg (wheel and tyre)

It simply deflected it.
 
Soldato
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I don't understand why they didn't accept the canopy. Sure it got damaged, but then the car can come back to the pits for a replacement, just like a damaged front wing.
 
Associate
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I don't understand why they didn't accept the canopy. Sure it got damaged, but then the car can come back to the pits for a replacement, just like a damaged front wing.

For anything to be an effective part of the crash structure it will need to be mounted directly to the chassis. If it's damaged then it's game over for the race.
 
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