Tap. Pay. UK. - Android Pay in the UK

mark43 · 22 May 2016 at 22:27

wesimmo said:
The first time I used my phone in the local shop, with half a dozen people behind me in the queue, the terminal read my phone fine, but the internet dropped so the terminal faffed on for a few minutes trying to to connect before voiding the transaction. The amount of tutting and sighing at me "trying to be fancy" was rather embarrassing, and frustrating because I wanted to plead my innocence and blame Virgin Media for their flaky internet rather than the phone technology.

Well that's worrying, I read that it should work without a signal, though I couldn't find much info on the subject. I came across this fairly old article.

http://www.cnet.com/how-to/android-pay-phone-how-it-works/

"You can use it in dead zones.

Android Pay can only perform a limited number of transactions in dead zones.

To understand why, let's back up and talk about Host Card Emulation, or "HCE." Whenever you make a purchase, a "token" is created, which replaces your real credit card number with a 16-digit dummy number. That way, if there was ever a credit card data breach and your transaction information was exposed, your real account number would be protected.

With Apple Pay, tokens are generated in a chip called the Secure Element. With Android Pay, they're generated in the cloud, which is what Host Card Emulation is. If you're without Internet and need to use Android Pay, the app will tap into a limited number of stored tokens on the device. (Where and how those tokens are stored isn't clear.)"

wesimmo · 22 May 2016 at 22:36

mark43 said:
Well that's worrying, I read that it should work without a signal, though I couldn't find much info on the subject. I came across this fairly old article.

http://www.cnet.com/how-to/android-pay-phone-how-it-works/

"You can use it in dead zones.

Android Pay can only perform a limited number of transactions in dead zones.

To understand why, let's back up and talk about Host Card Emulation, or "HCE." Whenever you make a purchase, a "token" is created, which replaces your real credit card number with a 16-digit dummy number. That way, if there was ever a credit card data breach and your transaction information was exposed, your real account number would be protected.

With Apple Pay, tokens are generated in a chip called the Secure Element. With Android Pay, they're generated in the cloud, which is what Host Card Emulation is. If you're without Internet and need to use Android Pay, the app will tap into a limited number of stored tokens on the device. (Where and how those tokens are stored isn't clear.)"

Acquirers will also enforce 1 in x checks on the merchant side too, even if the transaction is under the floor limit.

So an acquirer will, typically, only ask to authorise a transaction over a certain amount, but to combat fraudsters who clocked on to this would also check the occasional transaction under the floor limit.

Admittedly that was when I was in acquiring about 15+ years ago and the technology has moved on since then, both tokenisation and broadband wise, but maybe I just got caught by that.

It definitely voided the transaction rather than declined, and the lady after me had tried to top up her phone using cash while they waited for my transaction to clear the terminal but that separate machine also failed due to no connection.

Edit: thinking about it, there's probably a difference between a GPRS terminal and an IP terminal, though I'm less involved in that side of things these days I do actually still work in card payments and IP terminals are not yet standard and have in some cases only rolled out in any volume in the last year.

If a terminal expects to be online at all times, as an IP terminal would, then it would probably fail if there was no internet connection.

There are also more mobile solutions available these days, so building in dead zone mitigation for those would make sense.

wesimmo · 22 May 2016 at 22:42

AssaTM said:
What happens when the bank issues a prompt for your PIN when you're using your phone? is that just a case of unlocking your phone/entering your PIN on your phone or how does that work? as you theoretically wouldnt have your card with you so you wouldnt be able to put it into the machine

I would imagine that you would have to unlock your phone rather than enter a card PIN.

That's probably why you have to have a lock to use it even if you don't have to unlock the phone for every transaction?

DIABLO · 22 May 2016 at 23:08

wesimmo said:
I would imagine that you would have to unlock your phone rather than enter a card PIN.

That's probably why you have to have a lock to use it even if you don't have to unlock the phone for every transaction?

On Apple pay you have to enter the physical card and enter the pin. Only used it 2 times at the same place and got told to enter the card and input the pin.

wesimmo · 22 May 2016 at 23:30

DIABLO said:
On Apple pay you have to enter the physical card and enter the pin. Only used it 2 times at the same place and got told to enter the card and input the pin.

Seems a bit daft if Apple are expecting people to ditch their wallet in favour of their phone.

Personally I wouldn't be without my card anyway, too many people haven't rolled out contactless yet, but long term when contactless is ubiquitous they'll have to change that system surely?

Russinating · 23 May 2016 at 00:01

Used mine a few times now with no issues.

The only problem for me is a social one with paying with phones in general. If you're being served (rather than a self service till) the cashier normally looks to you to ascertain a means of payment before then pressing something on the till to spark up the card machine. It's this bit where just holding your phone (like everyone does) isn't enough to say you want to pay be card/phone. And then what do you say to them? "I want to pay by card" or "phone". Card is a lie and phone will just get funny looks. Ahhh first world problems...

robj20 · 23 May 2016 at 07:17

Russinating said:
Used mine a few times now with no issues.

The only problem for me is a social one with paying with phones in general. If you're being served (rather than a self service till) the cashier normally looks to you to ascertain a means of payment before then pressing something on the till to spark up the card machine. It's this bit where just holding your phone (like everyone does) isn't enough to say you want to pay be card/phone. And then what do you say to them? "I want to pay by card" or "phone". Card is a lie and phone will just get funny looks. Ahhh first world problems...

Had that already in a farmfoods, just said paying by card which you are its just the method that's different.
I'm finding it very convenient using the phone. I have those metal slips for my contactless cards to avoid any fraud, so this means no faffing taking them out of the slips.

AndyCr15 · 23 May 2016 at 07:43

I wouldn't say it's a lie. You are paying with your card, it's just your card is stored on your phone

mark43 · 23 May 2016 at 08:08

I've under up saying "contactless please" and motioning to the terminal.

BananaDunka · 23 May 2016 at 10:55

I just stand there waving my phone in their face like a loony.

I don't actually do that

With Barclays contactless you don't need to unlock the phone, just wake the screen.

robj20 · 25 May 2016 at 06:13

So what's the max you can spend, is it still £30.

Django x2 · 25 May 2016 at 09:10

welshboy said:
no barclays either ... surprise surprise

You can already Barclays, In fact, they've had their own version for over a year on Android

BananaDunka · 25 May 2016 at 09:34

robj20 said:
So what's the max you can spend, is it still £30.

Up to £100 with Android Pay, pin required for over £30. Unlimited for Samsung Pay (MST). Barclays contactless is up to £100 too.

skaif · 25 May 2016 at 15:19

Haggisman said:
Can confirm it works without unlocking (on Note 3)

Is this on a stock rom? I am running CM13 and it does not want to work...

Orcvader · 25 May 2016 at 15:30

skaif said:
Is this on a stock rom? I am running CM13 and it does not want to work...

Wait a sec, I thought Android Pay doesn't work if you're rooted? It may allow you to add the card but I thought it blocks the card from actually working when attempting to pay.

unwashed potato! · 25 May 2016 at 15:32

Orcvader said:
Wait a sec, I thought Android Pay doesn't work if you're rooted? It may allow you to add the card but I thought it blocks the card from actually working when attempting to pay.

tha'ts what i heard too

The1nonly1 · 25 May 2016 at 16:27

Orcvader said:
Wait a sec, I thought Android Pay doesn't work if you're rooted? It may allow you to add the card but I thought it blocks the card from actually working when attempting to pay.

Fairly sure the answer is no said:
tha'ts what i heard too

Works perfectly fine for me and I have managed to purchase items without a problem. I'm stock rom and rooted. I have a Nexus 5X on May security update running version 2.72 of Super SU

smokedog · 25 May 2016 at 16:49

Orcvader said:
Wait a sec, I thought Android Pay doesn't work if you're rooted? It may allow you to add the card but I thought it blocks the card from actually working when attempting to pay.

It works as long as you don't modified the system framework. I'm rooted, with custom rom and kernel.

Just make sure you use the systemless SuperSU.

Huntyz · 25 May 2016 at 17:54

Android pay works fine on root.

Silly Goose On The Loose · 25 May 2016 at 18:16

mrk said:
Up to £100 with Android Pay, pin required for over £30. Unlimited for Samsung Pay (MST). Barclays contactless is up to £100 too.

Not really useful in the UK as I've never actually had a terminal that didn't have chip and pin.

Tap. Pay. UK. - Android Pay in the UK

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