PC-Q11 Build: "Fanboy Folly"

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Lian Li PC-Q11 Build: Fanboy Folly

First a confession. I am an AMD fanboy. It's an irrational affliction and that has stuck with me since Intel left me in the lurch when it dumped Socket 7 in the mid ninties. :o Since then I have been Intel free and revelled in the AMD underdog status, and will hope to remain so. There, that's that all done. :D

There was a time that I used to be a fan of huge great big cases, bigger the better and all that. As I've got older, and after living with my last one, a TJ06 for several years I began to realise I could no longer stand these monolithic beasts any more. There was also the simple fact that being as I wasn't interested in raid arrays, multi GPU setups or liquid cooling, my huge ATX tower was mostly empty. It was time to downsize.

My first foray in to SFF was an Antec mATX case, which was a disaster from start to finish and was promptly replaced by a Silverstone SUGO SG01. For a while I was happy, content in my small form factor world, but my eye had already been drawn to something even smaller... Mini ITX.

Once the upgrade bug bites, it can only be cured by spending cash. Trouble was I was in a pickle. AMD and mITX went together as well as Yoko Ono and The Beatles.

The board:

Out of a very small bunch the only board that met my demands was the MINIX 890GX-USB3, manufactured by a company I'd never heard of. Trouble was no one in the UK wanted to stock it and showed no signs of ever doing so. So I was forced to take the plunge and order it from a German website using Google to help me translate everything. :D Astoundingly, everything went well and they shipped it to me in double quick time. Then Parcel Force got hold of it, and they annoyed me so much that afer two failed delivery attempts and a wasted third day waiting for them again, I eventually had to drive 18miles to their depot to collect it. :(

But it was worth it.
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Complete with 4 Sata 3 ports and USB 3, it fulfilled my desire for something small, nippy and feature packed.
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The Case
I'd seen several projects using the Lian Li PCQ 07 and was very impressed by the case and by how much nicer it looked compared to pretty much anything else on the market, but it did look almost too small. Now, I already own a v351 which currently houses my HTPC and to be honest the case is incredibly badly laid out and a total pig to work with, so I was uncertain about buying Lian Li again. Then the Q11 arrived and from what I could see it was perfect. There were a few tweaks to the layout, and thankfully a little more meat on it than the 07, but still retaining the shape. This would give me much needed to room to cram more hardware in to it. When the time came to order (from OCUK for once ;)), there was no contest.
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The 6870 incident.

Without Parcel Force involvement the Q11 arrived first and soon after I arrived at my first setback. My massive Sapphire 6870 would not fit in to the case! I'd pretty much guessed this would happen, but without solid facts from the internet regarding the Q11's interal dimensions I'd lived in wild hope it might. In the end the only thing that stopped it fitting were the ports at the rear getting stuck as I tried to jiggle it in. Though even if it had somehow squeezed in, I don't think I'd have been ever able to remove it! I had to replace it, but still wanted a decent card...

Now, I've also been a slight ATI fanboy since the 9600 days, but it was never set in stone. When AMD took over however, my fate was sealed and my card choice made for me. My problem was finding an 6850 that would fit in the case, because in their wisdom AMD had placed the PCI power connectors on the back of the 6850, rather than on the top. This made it almost as long as a refrence 6870. The only card I could find that was shorter than the refrence design was by XFX. I've never bought one of their cards before, so I hit 'buy' and bit my nails waiting for the card to turn up.
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First impressions were not great. The cooling shroud looks, and feels cheap and while running the fan sounds 'nasty' anywhere between 45 and 50% speed, but it did fit! Just.
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CPU's and Heatsinks
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The original plan had been to make this PC future proof for a year or two, and coupled with the mobo's limitations and my own desire to make this system as powerful as possible I had hoped to stick one of those fancy 95w Six-Core “Thuban's” under the bonnet. Sadly, and ever so slightly dampening my fanboy adoration, AMD won't allow us to buy these chips off the shelf. So I had to continue using my trusty old Phenom II 720BE. Cooling these little PC's, especially powerful little PC's is a bit more troublesome than in a standard ATX build. Rather than simply finding the biggest lump of metal/fan combo you can afford, you have to think about it a bit. I'd found the perfect solution with my SG01 build using a Scythe SHURIKEN Rev.B heatsink and flipping the fan over so it drew air up through the heatsink and up in to the PSU fan and out the back. This worked superbly in my old build and so I set to work repeating this in the Q11. I hit a snag the moment I tired to attach the Scythe. The heatpipes were pushing the mobo's IGP heatsink over at an alarming angle it simply would not fit.

One impulse purchase later and I discovered that the Thermaltake AXP 140 heatsink didn't fit either. This will now be stored for a later build I'm planning. I'll try to forget how much it cost!

In the end I had to resort to digging out my 720BE cpu's original large heatsink and fan. I flipped the fan over, and everything fitted sweet as a nut. It just doesn't look as sexy as I'd hoped.
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Assembly

To get a mobo in to a Q11 requires you to attach it via four stand offs directly on to one of the side panels. Thankfully we're only talking iTX scale here, but it was still a tricky job lining up the IO plate and screwing the panel on to the rest of the case while being incredibly careful not to scratch anything on the exterior. This is one aspect of Lian Li's design I hate.
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Mounted behind a nice stealth drive panel, my Sony Optiarc DVD drive is nicely hidden from view in the top of the case. You push the button and the drive pushes down the cover and there you are. I had though about simply going external with my optical drive, as it's very rarely used nowadays, but in the end I stuffed the drive in. The only downside of this is that the Optiarc's already very punchy ejection seqeunce is magnified by the flip down cover. Ejecting a DVD can be quite dramatic now!
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I made a descision very early on to remove the massive 140mm fan from the front of the case. In my opinion it was not going to do a great deal, other than taking up much needed space. The vents were still there and air would still enter the case, beside I had my eyes on that space for stuffing away cables and mounting a 2.5inch hard drive.

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I placed my 2 64GB crucial SSD's (my reason for wanting SATA 3) in the handy space under the metal hard drive holder at the base of the case and started routing cables as best as I was able. I'd already decided to swap my original 3.5" F3 Hard Drive with the 2.5inch WD drive I had in my HTPC. The F3 would have been too much of an handful in here, and mounting it in the space Lian Li had provided would have placed it uncomfortably close to my graphics card. Mounting the 2.5" HDD was solved by using some velcro, the bodgers friend!

Another problem I faced was Li Li's crazy decision to allow the USB 3 ports on the back of the mobo to be hooked up to the front of the case. The cable they used for this was stupidly long, very inflexible, and completly useless if you happened to be using a dual slot graphics card, like me. In the end I settled for hooking the cable up to the internal USB 2 headers and figuring out where best to shove the rest of the wiring. A quick mod was then required to allow my 3 pin power LED to fit on the 2 pin motherboard header and the easy bit was over!

POWER!!!


The sensible course of action with a PSU would have been to purchase a nice mITX PSU, but I simply reused my normal 450w Corsair one instead. At least it was modular. Using a normal PSU like say my old Seasonic would have left no room for anything else in the case other than cables! Unfortunatly the main power leads are not modular, but they do serve a handy secondary purpose of helping keep my velcro'd HDD in place. I couldn't have planned it better, though some planning wouldn't have gone amiss!
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Firing her up!

With some final shoving and make do cable tidying, I screwed the remaining side panel on and plugged everything in. Considering the terrible mess I'd made of trying to squeeze heatsinks in that simply hadn't a hope in hell of fitting and numerous other case building misdemeanour's, it all worked first time. Where's the fun in that!?

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Performace

A clean install of WIN 7 is booting up remarkably quickly and once I'd installed MSI's handy litte Afterburner program and got that horrible XFX fan under control, the system ran pretty quietly too. CPU temps are a little higher than my old SG01 case, but only under laod and apart from having to replace a sata cable on my DVD drive everything seems to running smooth...

I ran a few HDD tests to see how the boards SATA 3 setup stacked up against my old ASUS board. It did very well coming in with just a few MB/s difference.

Conclusions

I never thought I'd take to a black case, but it's growing on me and it matches my monitor and speakers too. So it all looks nice and neat for once. It's a shame my camera and lousy photography skills can't show it off better. A nicer room might help too.

Working inside the case really wasn't too bad in the end, though if I had not removed the 140mm fan, things would have been more complicated. The only downside are those nasty little screws Lian Li use to attach the panels to the case. Though I suppose it'll stop me from endless tinkering. ;)

Downgrading to a 6850 has taken a little of the shine off my GFX, but outside of a benchmark I'd probably not even notice. Hard drive performance is as good as I'd hoped and generally the system responds as well as my old mATX build.

It's been an expensive build, but hopefully I can take the edge of the costs by selling off most of the stuff I couldn't bring over to this system. The 6870, SG01 case, mobo and RAM should make some much needed cash and soften the blow when I summon up the courage to look at my bank balance!

My final piece of advice is this. Looking to go mITX from scratch? Go Intel! They have a much wider range of hardware to chose from. Only sadists and fanboys should go the AMD route. :D
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Hope the wall of text didn't bore you too much! ;)

"Fanboy Folly" System Specs
LIAN LI PC-Q11
J&W MINIX 890GX-USB3
AMD PHENOM 2 X3 720BE
Large Stock AMD cooler (Flipped fan)
Corsair HX 450w Modular PSU
8GB Corsair PC3-10600 SO-DIMM (4GBx2)
XFX 6850
2 x Crucial c300 64GB SSD's
1 x Western Digital Scorpio Blue 2.5" HDD 500GB
1 x Sony Optiarc DVD RW
 
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Nice Build, Looking to build a machine for video editing..

First off does the BIOS support 6 Core 95W AMD, as I can get them.

Does the USB 3.0 Controller Run off PCI-E x 1 2.0 Bus or Higher?, as I have a capture card that requires full 5Gbit/s Bandwidth, most USB 3 Controllers Run of PCI-E x 1 1.0 Bus so cripples bandwidth to 250MB/s..

Where is Mini-PCI-E Slot located, and have you used it yet

With a Micro ATX PSU, i.e Silverstone 450W should be able to fit in Corsair H50 Cooler
 
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Thanks for the positive comments, chaps! :o

I've seen so many fantastic build/project logs on here and I really wanted to have a go too. This project seemed to be the one to try it on. It lacked the mad modding skills of many other far more skilled people, but everyone likes a nose at someone else's system. And a laugh when an expensive mistake is made. ;)

Nice Build, Looking to build a machine for video editing..

First off does the BIOS support 6 Core 95W AMD, as I can get them.

Does the USB 3.0 Controller Run off PCI-E x 1 2.0 Bus or Higher?, as I have a capture card that requires full 5Gbit/s Bandwidth, most USB 3 Controllers Run of PCI-E x 1 1.0 Bus so cripples bandwidth to 250MB/s..

Where is Mini-PCI-E Slot located, and have you used it yet

With a Micro ATX PSU, i.e Silverstone 450W should be able to fit in Corsair H50 Cooler

The Mini-PCI-e slot is underneath, between the PCI-e slot and heatsink mounting plate. My only real use for the slot would be for wireless networking, but currently I'm using a WG111, which does the job for me. That may change in the future, using the on board slot would make things neater. For this there are two wires supplied that would link up to a pair of antennae that can be mounted on the I/O shield.

Those H50 style of coolers completely slipped my mind, all I need is somewhere to mount the cooling fans!

With regards to the USB 3.0 speeds, I honestly have no idea. All I know is that it has uPD720200 host controller, but short of hooking one of my c300's up to a USB3 enclosure I have no means of testing it.

The 6 core CPU business is one the boards big selling points. So yes, but it must be 95w.
That's a cracking little build, whats the overall noise like?

At the moment I think the main problem is that XFX. It seems to make a 'racket' between 40&50% speed. Trouble is, depending on the room temperature, that's where it likes to keep station in my system. :(

I need to get to grips with this mobo's fan control settings too, and keep an eye out for a better heatsink/fan combo for my CPU. Bigger fans are always better in my book! That heatsink on the IGP is a real pain though and has made things a bit more complicated. Low profile heatpipe coolers are a bit of a no no it seems. I suspect an Intel board would be better laid out, or the coolers designed with them in mind.

That said, when she's just going through the motions in Windows and Firefox it's actually not bad at all. Not silent, but not bad. :)
 
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Soldato
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Great read, and really inspiring to try mITX.

I know what you mean about black cases. I'd prefer anything but black, but the whole of IT components and peripherals is geared towards black cases.

Going by the back story, you signature seems to have true meaning when describing Parcel Force :)
 
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Do you know if gtx 470 will fit?.. also is your 6850 standard length and is it same length as 5850

I was about to point you in this direction as it has a full thread on this case (and was my main inspiration) and the various cards people try to shove in it. http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=102 Then I found to my considerable amusement that someone there had linked to this thread. :D (If they're reading, I can categorically state that a reference Sapphire 6870 simply will not fit in the PC-Q11. If you got modding at the back end with a dremel and slid it in that way, who knows, but I still reckon it would be a few mil too long...)

Anyway, info on board lengths is annoying vague when you want solid facts, and even when you do get it it tends to be in inches or half inches, which is almost totally useless at these small scales. I need millimetres! In the end I went with the view that the XFX was a little shorter. It's the pci-e power lead which is the main source of stress. Once it's seated I had loads of room left, but getting the card in and out is the tricky bit. I don't know anything about 5850's unfortunatly.

Does the minix support raid?

The options are there in the Bios, but until we get TRIM support for RAID, it's of no use to me. It seems to be a fully featured board, just very dinky indeed.

Awesome post. I'm tempted to go M-ATX myself. :)

m-ATX? Pft. Too big, dude. m-ITX is where all the cool kids hang out. Or the stupid ones with more money than sense... :D I did find something quite satisfying about scaling everything down though. I recommend it.

Great read, and really inspiring to try mITX.

I know what you mean about black cases. I'd prefer anything but black, but the whole of IT components and peripherals is geared towards black cases.

Going by the back story, your signature seems to have true meaning when describing Parcel Force :)

In the end I knew I had to go black after trying to live with my silver SUGO. It was a lovely shiny case, but it simply clashed with everything else. :(

And while I love my comrades at Parcel Force, they do have a bit of a reputation. Be seeing you!
 
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Soldato
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With the 2.5" mechanical drive, is that used for relocated swap file and Windows temp directory to limit writes to SSD? And if you used same set-up in previous system, but using a 3.5 HDD instead, has the switch a laptop drive slowed responsiveness?
 
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With the 2.5" mechanical drive, is that used for relocated swap file and Windows temp directory to limit writes to SSD? And if you used same set-up in previous system, but using a 3.5 HDD instead, has the switch a laptop drive slowed responsiveness?

I've always been fairly casual with my SSD's. A lot of people treat 'em with kid gloves, but I personally don't see the point so I keep my swap on the c300's. I've yet to experience any issues with any of my drives, apart from an early Samsung SSD, but that was utter garbage.

Over the weekend I may get around to moving the temp folder and possibly my documents over to the 2.5", but I've been too busy mucking about with Gran Turisimo 5 to pay my PC a lot of attention of late. The 2.5" drive itself is mainly used for downloads, data and all manner of other guff. There is a small secondary gaming partition on it of 100GB. I've currently got The Sims 3 installed on it, and there's nothing much in it performance wise. It's also a hell of a lot quieter than the old F3, and smaller, which outweighs any minor performance gains from the larger drive.
Hi is the raid definately in the bios, as couldn't see it mentioned in specs or manual...

There is nothing in the manual, which did surprise me, but the option is there in the Bios, along with the AHCI option, which I selected. I'm not a RAID head and all I know is that it's done via the SB850 and not by a separate chip.
+1

First mini-ITX AMD build Ive seen, and the build log was very good :p

Looks like a powerful PC at any rate!

If I could have got hold of one of the 95w X6's it would have been even more stupidly overpowered. :D However, she does have her moments.

And she does seem to be a rare breed... The lack of decent mobo's and SO-Dimm's, in particular, probably scare people off. There's also the question of value for money, I think. I reckon you could go Intel for less cash, and still outpace this rig.

But such is the fate of the Fanboy. ;)
 
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Just a brief update.

I finally succumbed to tinker temptation and decided to switch to the mobo's onboard wireless today. It did involve almost completely disassembling everything, but it enabled me to have a fresh bash at tidying up the internal cables. The only downside was scratching the case slightly (again :o). Thankfully the lighting in the room means I can't see the offending areas...

Plugging the little cables in to the equally small card was pig and resulted in at least one alarming ping noise from the other side of the motherboard, but everything worked fine when I fired her up.

I still have an stubborn unidentified something or other in device manager, which I'm assuming is the Bluetooth half of the Atheros mini PCI-e card, but the wireless networking half works a treat and is as good as the USB Netgear adapter I removed. It also makes things a tad tidier as well, which is nice. Less cables = :).
 
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