Autumn tests 2008 - Rugby union

[PaulStat]

So after last years six nations performance can the champions hold the title, if the results this autumn are anything to go by, they certainly look in with a chance of doing so. Despite the score against Canada the game was boring, the other three Welsh games however have been awesome.

Second half against NZ was dissapointing.

Wales

Wales vs South Africa 15 - 20
Wales vs Canada 34 - 13
Wales vs New Zealand 9 - 29
Wales vs Australia 21 - 18

England

England vs Pacific Islanders 39 -13
England vs Australia 14 - 28
England vs South Africa 6 - 42
England vs New Zealand 6 - 32

Scotland

Scotland vs New Zealand 6 - 32
Scotland vs South Africa 10 - 14
Scotland vs Canada 42 - 0

Ireland

Ireland vs Canada 55 - 0
Ireland vs New Zealand 3 - 22
Ireland vs Argentina 17 - 3

France

France vs Argentina 12 - 6
France vs Pacific Islanders 42 - 17
France vs Australia 13 - 18

Italy

Italy vs Australia 20 - 30
Italy vs Argentina 14 - 22
Italy vs Pacific Islanders 17 - 25

 

[Morba]

terrible by the english.
not looking forward to the 6 nations as an englishman, can only see us beating the italians!

 

[Greenlizard0]

England have done terrible. Well done Wales on their result today. Liverpool's going to be interesting out tonight lol!

 

[Ben Cole]

I was at the match in Cardiff and it was an absolute rip-snorter. Very happy man. We could/should have won by more. We again gifted the opposition 7 points and missed easy kicks at goal. But hey ho a win is all that matters.

Just finished watching the England match.

A few things annoyed me. The Sky team kept banging on about how the match turned at 60 mins and that England were right there for an hour.
At one point Stuart Barnes said "Wales lived with NZ for 40 mins, England lived with them for 60". What tripe. Wales led NZ for all of the first half last week and were genuinely on top. England were never in front in this game yet the commentary team continually went on about positives for England. The only real positive was that England did make NZ work for it.

The reality is that at 60 mins England were 17-6 down and didn't look like scoring a try. I couldn't see any other winner from 30 mins in particularly when you remember Carter missed lots of kicks. It's this awful coverage from the media that is counter-productive to England's cause. It really does get in the way of progress particularly in the aspect of picking the correct team.

However the main thing that annoyed me was that England could never have won that match. Alain Rolland (Irish/French referee) decided so before the kick off. NZ were invisible at the breakdown AGAIN and when people like Toby Flood get sin binned for a pretty innocuous high tackle you know you're on to a loser. Particularly when that fact is rubbed into your face by a worse NZ high tackle moments later that goes by with so much as a mention.

I wasn't cheering for England for any other reason than to knock the Kiwis off their perch, their arrogance is breathtaking. Boy was it frustrating due to the referee.

It was a masterclass in cheating and niggly play.

I'd better stop now. England aren't my team and usually I couldn't give a fig but that match got me really wound up.

I think I should have a mild sedative and go to bed.................

 

[SteveOBHave]

I was at the match in Cardiff and it was an absolute rip-snorter. Very happy man. We could/should have won by more. We again gifted the opposition 7 points and missed easy kicks at goal. But hey ho a win is all that matters.

Just finished watching the England match.

A few things annoyed me. The Sky team kept banging on about how the match turned at 60 mins and that England were right there for an hour.
At one point Stuart Barnes said "Wales lived with NZ for 40 mins, England lived with them for 60". What tripe. Wales led NZ for all of the first half last week and were genuinely on top. England were never in front in this game yet the commentary team continually went on about positives for England. The only real positive was that England did make NZ work for it.

The reality is that at 60 mins England were 17-6 down and didn't look like scoring a try. I couldn't see any other winner from 30 mins in particularly when you remember Carter missed lots of kicks. It's this awful coverage from the media that is counter-productive to England's cause. It really does get in the way of progress particularly in the aspect of picking the correct team.

However the main thing that annoyed me was that England could never have won that match. Alain Rolland (Irish/French referee) decided so before the kick off. NZ were invisible at the breakdown AGAIN and when people like Toby Flood get sin binned for a pretty innocuous high tackle you know you're on to a loser. Particularly when that fact is rubbed into your face by a worse NZ high tackle moments later that goes by with so much as a mention.

I wasn't cheering for England for any other reason than to knock the Kiwis off their perch, their arrogance is breathtaking. Boy was it frustrating due to the referee.

It was a masterclass in cheating and niggly play.

I'd better stop now. England aren't my team and usually I couldn't give a fig but that match got me really wound up.

I think I should have a mild sedative and go to bed.................

Are you serious? Arrogance? The ref warned both sides several times and then very clearly told them that if they kept infringing players would be sent off. England were playing dirty and not even being smart about it - they handed off a massive number of penalties and the only people they have to blame are themselves.

As for Toby flood - innocuous? It was a headlock carried to the ground - and normally it would be a slap on the wrist but on top off all the other infringements it was too much. Collapsing the scrums, throwing arms and shoulders into other players faces and general ill controlled anger on the pitch only showed the English players as a bunch of thugs of which their captain is the worst.

England have no-one to blame other than themselves and their lack of discipline. The Kiwis did not relinquish a single try the entire series and somehow that makes them arrogant? They were smarter faster and better players from the word go.

Your an idiot if you think the ref was favoring anyone and the game was never predetermined. The match and the series have been won by the better players end of story.

As an aside - I've been to many international rugby games in this country and the English supporters are quite possibly the worst in the world. No respect, constant booing and pathetic carry on - it will be a sad day if rugby supporters get segregated like football supporters. They should take their low swinging chariot home and not come back.

 

[Ben Cole]

My statement of Kiwis as being arrogant regarding rugby is based on the last 30 years of playing,watching and meeting them NOT yesterday. England as you know have a somewhat arrogant reputation too. At no point did I say it was based on anything that happened yesterday.

A classic example is the All Blacks belief they have a god given right to perform their Haka under their own conditions with no response when they are AWAY FROM HOME!!!!!

England may have been dirtier than normal yesterday. Why? Frustration.

Example, Haskell got sent of for a barge into a maul.
Why did he do it? Because So'oialo entered the wrong side and remained there making a nuisance of himself and Rolland did nothing about it.

Flood. Can't agree. Watched it again and it was a penalty maybe, no way a yellow card.

England have no-one to blame other than themselves and their lack of discipline. The Kiwis did not relinquish a single try the entire series and somehow that makes them arrogant? They were smarter faster and better players from the word go.

It seems you didn't really read my post, you just took offence. I agree the Kiwis never looked like losing. As I said in the original post I was mystified by the positive slant being put on the match by the media. Again, I didn't say anything about yesterday specifically regarding the Kiwis arrogance. Of course it was there. ie. Kiwis allowed a little dig after or off the ball but woe betide anybody else try it on them.

Your an idiot if you think the ref was favoring anyone and the game was never predetermined.

The match result wasn't predetermined. Of course it wasn't. However you're an idiot if you don't think NZ got favourable rulings at the breakdown. It seemed clear that Rolland had pre-conceived ideas of how he was going to officiate.

Myself and the rest of the world outside NZ are constantly bemused with the shenanigans of McCaw and the rest.

The match and the series have been won by the better players end of story.

Please point out where this is disagreed with or debated.

I entirely agree that the ABs are streets ahead. They would however get a lot more respect and affection from other nations if they weren't so very arrogant and played the game more within it's laws.

When you read my post please think of these two points. I'm Welsh and trust me have no affection for England. I am not however one of those one-eyed Welshmen that automatically hate all things English. Secondly, I have spent a lot of time in NZ travelling all around the South and North Islands and loved the country and it's people. Take rugby out of the equation and they're a generally honest and pleasant bunch.

 

[SteveOBHave]

My statement of Kiwis as being arrogant regarding rugby is based on the last 30 years of playing,watching and meeting them NOT yesterday. England as you know have a somewhat arrogant reputation too. At no point did I say it was based on anything that happened yesterday.

I don't see it. They're not exactly what you would call humble but they are some of the best players in the world. If there is perceived arrogance then it's down to tall poppy syndrome rather than any supremist attitude - you find me an international rugby team that aren't full of themselves. Making a call like "knock the Kiwis off their perch, their arrogance is breathtaking..." is baseless - they're all (rugby players) 6 foot + monsters that have a huge level of self confidance, it's no more or no less the Kiwis.

A classic example is the All Blacks belief they have a god given right to perform their Haka under their own conditions with no response when they are AWAY FROM HOME!!!!!

It's tradition and has been there since 1884 so I think they can be forgiven for keeping it up however I do agree about the response thing and seeing Wales face it down was one of the more electrifying pieces of sporting theatre I've ever seen. More of that I say.

England may have been dirtier than normal yesterday. Why? Frustration.

Example, Haskell got sent of for a barge into a maul.
Why did he do it? Because So'oialo entered the wrong side and remained there making a nuisance of himself and Rolland did nothing about it.

And he was rightly sent off - there is no justification for being a moron on the pitch - if the touch judges or the ref miss it or fail to respond then get on with the game, don't be a pillock and get yourself sent off.

Flood. Can't agree. Watched it again and it was a penalty maybe, no way a yellow card.

I agree - normally it should've been a penalty but it was just another act in a bunch of moronic dirty plays. Penalty for sure and not a yellow card but in context it was an understandable carding.

It seems you didn't really read my post, you just took offence. I agree the Kiwis never looked like losing. As I said in the original post I was mystified by the positive slant being put on the match by the media. Again, I didn't say anything about yesterday specifically regarding the Kiwis arrogance. Of course it was there. ie. Kiwis allowed a little dig after or off the ball but woe betide anybody else try it on them.

I think you sell Englands first 20 - 30minutes short, they were doing everything they should've against the Kiwis, they had totally disrupted their rythm and were displaying excellent physicality but just got stupid. Yes I took offence because you're knocking the ABs for not only being smart with their plays but also being smart with recognising what kind of a game the ref is playing and changing to suit.

The match result wasn't predetermined. Of course it wasn't. However you're an idiot if you don't think NZ got favourable rulings at the breakdown. It seemed clear that Rolland had pre-conceived ideas of how he was going to officiate.

Myself and the rest of the world outside NZ are constantly bemused with the shenanigans of McCaw and the rest.

(Sorry for calling you an idiot - grumpy hung over morning )

I dunno mate, I think he's just good at manipulating the situation and that is part of the game (shouldn't be but it is) so why should he be penalised or derided for that. Rolland is one of the best (if not the best) ref in the world right now and calls it as per the book however I do think he was over finiky and should've been finding some balance with keeping the game flowing rather than constantly whipping his yellow card out but end of the day it's the players that hold the responsibility. I just didn't see him being baised. England made their bed and they ended up lying in it.

I entirely agree that the ABs are streets ahead. They would however get a lot more respect and affection from other nations if they weren't so very arrogant and played the game more within it's laws.

I see a large part of the perception again down to tall poppy syndrome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

When you read my post please think of these two points. I'm Welsh and trust me have no affection for England. I am not however one of those one-eyed Welshmen that automatically hate all things English. Secondly, I have spent a lot of time in NZ travelling all around the South and North Islands and loved the country and it's people. Take rugby out of the equation and they're a generally honest and pleasant bunch.

As are the Welsh and one of my best rugby viewing experinces was the ABs vs Wales at the Millenium Stadium - the Welsh people were brilliant and graceful in defeat something the English could well learn from.

 

[Ben Cole]

I can't say you are wrong with anything you say. It's clear I just see things (understandably IMHO) from a different point of view. So it's probably best not to waste our time debating most points.

I don't need Wikipedia for an explanation of tall poppy syndrome thanks

You're probably right on that one. NZs success over the history of rugby is nigh on unbelievable. Their win ratio far exceeds any other nation and defeats come along even rarer than the law of averages would state.

I'd have McCaw in my side any day but it's awful to watch the game shaped by his "smart" play even when it's not Wales suffering.

P.S. Not all rugby players are six foot monsters. I'm 5'6" and 13 stone and played with and against some of Wales' and England's best when I was a young lad. I never played against the current World player of the year but have rubbed shoulders with him and he is of almost identical dimensions to me.

You gotta love Shane, he gives hope to short ar*es the world over

 

[dante6491]

EDIT: Delete. What was I on when i posted first time.