Toyota will quit F1, Ferrari may quit F1 . . .

deuse said:
In the Times online sept 2008
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And you don't think that Bernie used loaded terms like "bought" to rattle a few cages and try to put a few cracks in FOTA?

I like how you're fixating on Ferrari in all of this. You have actually noticed how many teams are hating on the proposed implementation of the budget cap haven't you? I mean, really noticed?
 
AcidHell2 said:
what has that got to do with anything?
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You call yourself a fan!!!!!!

In 2003 most of the F1 teams said they wont sign up.
bernie and max bought Ferrari not to do it..he won..

just like Flavo and Ron Dennis said said would pull out THIS YEAR
and did they NOPE.
 
deuse said:
You call yourself a fan!!!!!!

In 2003 most of the F1 teams said they wont sign up.
bernie and max bought Ferrari not to do it..he won..

just like Flavo and Ron Dennis said said would pull out THIS YEAR
and did they NOPE.
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Do you actually know what you are arguing about?
 
There are a few people in this thread who seem to be delighted with the fact that there are a few teams out there "threatening" to form a break away series. What I am guessing most of you don't know is that it has been done before in the early 1980's when some of the teams set up their own "World Federation of Motorsport" and staged a Grand Prix in South Africa - won by Williams. It was a total flop due to some of the teams not turning up, lack of fan support and lack of media coverage.

Setting up another race series isn't the answer and will be doomed to fail - this is all just history repeating itself!
 
Kids yeah right.

F1 is about technology, more about technology than driver
fF will never have as close racing as other series. hey are the pinnacle of technology and as such punch far bigger holes in he air and create far more air movement.
F1 should never be restricted to a stupidly small sum of 40mill.

And as I said they will come to some middle ground.
 
AcidHell2 said:
F1 should never be restricted to a stupidly small sum of 40mill.
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It's not stupidly small if you look at what teams were spending historically, even when you take inflation in to account. It's just in the last 10 years that spending has ballooned.
 
fini said:
It's not stupidly small if you look at what teams were spending historically, even when you take inflation in to account. It's just in the last 10 years that spending has ballooned.
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we are not in the 80's any more. Things cost more. Improvement in technology costs a lot more. People cost more. Especially seeing the skills are very useful in other areas.

As I said before adding a few values to an engine made huge gains and was relatively cheap. Small tricks like that have been done and to get any large improvement now cost many times more. You can not get away from that fact. As you use more and more ideas up, the less avenues are available and as such costs rise.
 
JUMPURS said:
Dunno, ask Red Bull, Torro Rosso, Force India and ehhhh WCC leaders Brawn GP how they managed it. That's 5 teams in what, maybe 5 years?

Mosely is at it with this whole 'we can't get new teams involved without a cap'
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All previously dead or dying teams with Force India unlikely to last more than a few seasons before they got bored of coming last.

None of those you mention actually "new" gound up teams. The last ground up team didn't last very long even with un-official support.

Capping will allow fresh teams. The only other way to reduce costs and bring in fresh teams is standardisation and no one wants a slightly faster F3000 race now do they.
 
And no one on the grid wants a tow tier system. And the big teams can't simply slash their budget by that much,
Just look at what CS said red bull spend around 24million just on wages.
 
Moley said:
There are a few people in this thread who seem to be delighted with the fact that there are a few teams out there "threatening" to form a break away series. What I am guessing most of you don't know is that it has been done before in the early 1980's when some of the teams set up their own "World Federation of Motorsport" and staged a Grand Prix in South Africa - won by Williams. It was a total flop due to some of the teams not turning up, lack of fan support and lack of media coverage.

Setting up another race series isn't the answer and will be doomed to fail - this is all just history repeating itself!
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Let's say Ferrari and friends set up a rival series, with races on the same days as the emaciated F1 races. Let's also suppose that ITV snap up the rights to show these races.

Which would you watch? The "F1" with only two worthwhile teams in, or the rival series with the faster cars, better drivers and most of the big names from F1 in it? I know which I'd be doing...
 
AcidHell2 said:
we are not in the 80's any more. Things cost more. Improvement in technology costs a lot more. People cost more. Especially seeing the skills are very useful in other areas.

As I said before adding a few values to an engine made huge gains and was relatively cheap. Small tricks like that have been done and to get any large improvement now cost many times more. You can not get away from that fact. As you use more and more ideas up, the less avenues are available and as such costs rise.
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It's not that the ideas have been all used up, it's that most of the decent ones have just been banned. :p
 
Mr Jack said:
Let's say Ferrari and friends set up a rival series, with races on the same days as the emaciated F1 races. Let's also suppose that ITV snap up the rights to show these races.

Which would you watch? The "F1" with only two worthwhile teams in, or the rival series with the faster cars, better drivers and most of the big names from F1 in it? I know which I'd be doing...
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I would record the other and watch the F1. Then when i have finished watching the F1, i would watch the other series. Would make my Sundays perfect :D
 
Mr Jack said:
Let's say Ferrari and friends set up a rival series, with races on the same days as the emaciated F1 races. Let's also suppose that ITV snap up the rights to show these races.

Which would you watch? The "F1" with only two worthwhile teams in, or the rival series with the faster cars, better drivers and most of the big names from F1 in it? I know which I'd be doing...
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I would still watch Formula One because it wouldn't be just two worthwhile teams as you put it.

I would also watch the new series with interest - although how it would survive having to cope with the already established Formula One, A1GP and Champ cars is another matter....

As a matter of interest I have just read a comment from Flavio Briatore which I think is very telling in this whole matter:

"Our aim is to reduce costs while maintaining the high standards that make Formula One one of the most prestigious brands on the market.
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That emboldened bit is marketing talk - not racing talk, this whole issue is about money, marketing and control of the governance of F1....
 
I think if enough teams broke away they would be F1 in all but name. A lot of money would suddenly appear to make it work.

I make no secret of the fact I'd like to see it happen. Mosely interferes far too much with F1 and has reduced it to a shadow of its former self.

I'd like to see a series with much more technical freedom, faster cars and greater diversity. 1000HP V12s anyone? :cool:
 
Spie said:
I think if enough teams broke away they would be F1 in all but name. A lot of money would suddenly appear to make it work.

I make no secret of the fact I'd like to see it happen. Mosely interferes far too much with F1 and has reduced it to a shadow of its former self.

I'd like to see a series with much more technical freedom, faster cars and greater diversity. 1000HP V12s anyone? :cool:
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Interesting post. In the middle of a global economic crisis - with all major car manufacturers in dire financial straits, where do you suggest this money will suddenly appear from? I know Ferrari/Fiat has cash but do you really think they would want to subsidise a brand new racing series just to make a point?

I think that Max Mosley has the interests of the sport at heart, but him and Bernie are trying to rush through changes - when they should be done slower and with consultation from all the teams.

More technical freedom would be cool, but faster cars? Nah - I think the sport is pretty much on the limit in terms of speed nowadays. This year has been one of the most interesting in terms of racing in years - would be nice to see the sport given an chance to "settle" and be the spectacle of years gone by.

Just my tuppence worth.

:)
 
rypt said:
An *anything* goes series, where only restrictions are crash safety structures?
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Yes exactly. The current cars are generating around 5g's of cornering force as it is, so I'm not sure how much more the drivers can manage, let alone the circuit run-off areas.
 
Moley said:
Interesting post. In the middle of a global economic crisis - with all major car manufacturers in dire financial straits, where do you suggest this money will suddenly appear from?
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Same place it's coming from now. It wouldn't take long. F1 teams are not short of cash.
 
robbiemc said:
Yes exactly. The current cars are generating around 5g's of cornering force as it is, so I'm not sure how much more the drivers can manage, let alone the circuit run-off areas.
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We need faster circuits and we used to have them, but they were slowed down by putting chicanes everywhere. Anyone remember how fast Monza and Silverstone used to be?
 
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