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Nvidia's 3D surround vision gets a panning

Soldato
Joined
18 May 2003
Posts
4,894
http://vr-zone.com/forums/545182/nvidia-3d-vision-surround--mess-huge-mess.html

Pretty harsh words and I'm not sure the guy is right, surely it can't be this much of a framerate hit?

RobertVarga_21-01-2010-19-33-59_CzechGamer-3dVisionSurroundEst.jpg
 
Hands up who used to have the old eyeScream

I remember my eyes almost dribbling out of my head after a 3 hour tomb raider session on those bad boys :D
 
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It's hardly surprising though is it? It's effectively rendering 6x as much info as a single screen without 3D.

What, just, what, the two different numbers shown are with 3d and without.

I'm not actually 100% sure if the framerate literally halfs, the idea is the glasses actually cut your effective framerate in half, but the screen is supposed to show the same number of frames.

IE if a game in non 3d mode is giving 120fps, in 3d mode its STILL showing 120fps, but each alternate frame is slightly offset, and the GLASSES and not the screen stop your eye seeing every alternate frame. So the FPS is still 120fps, but each eye is only seeing 60fps.

Now I'm not sure if in a framerate counter this will still show up as 120fps, or through some quirk show up at 60fps.

But the listed numbers are both with the same screen setup, blue without 3d on, red with 3d on. Theres no situation where one framerate compared to another is 6x the resolution, not one.

Now on 1680x1050, the perfect 3d should give IDENTICAL framerate as without 3d on, just your eye's should be seeing half of the frames, but your other eye is supposed to show the other half.

Now I'd imagine some loss without question as it sinks up frames so nothing funky is going on with left eye/right eye alternating.

But I guess the idea is losing 60% of your fps to get 3d, isn't great.

IN surround at the lower res, you should be able to get 30fps both in AND out of 3d, its only the glasses making one eye see half the frames. So its certainly losing a heck of a lot of power doing 3d.

The biggest issue would be this, the glasses won't work well with surround, because they aren't melded to your eyeballs but a little away from your face. Any glasses user will tell you glasses compared to contact lenses the biggest difference is your peripheral vision and thats half the point of the "surround" part of this. If half the left and right screen is blocked by the glasses frames, then whats the point. Also being LCD's in the glasses frames I've heard also that they don't let in light from tight angles due to alignment, which means quite possibly even the bits of the left/right screen you can see will be next to impossible to see due to the angle which they sit to the glasses.

Meh, their plain old surround without 3d, the numbers don't look terrible, 77fps at 1680x1050, and 30fps for 3x that res is not at all bad, keeping in mind the 77fps looks a tad cpu limited(as a drop to only 70 at 1920x1200 is far smaller than you'd expect at gpu limits). The hit from going from any res/screen setup, to the same setup in 3d is pretty terrible though.

Considering that a single 1680x1050 goes from 77fps which is more than playable, to 36fps, which, well, isn't, then 3d isn't particularly good.

however, we'll have to wait for some proper reviews by the better sites.
 
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When using 3d vision you can turn off AA as it gives you AA anyway.

I just tested it on a gtx 280 stock with a 2.5ghz stock q2 quad core. Settings maxed, except DOF turned off. - as requested when the game starts in 3d.


Performance, as expected 3D Vision Off 90-120fps
Performance, as expected 3D Vision On 43-60fps
I played a few lvls and this was pretty much the average.

Smoke was the main fps killer, and some of the massive battles (which to be honest there are a fair few). There were also a couple off odd area's that made both 3D on and off fps to drop to the lower end where nothing was happening on screen or anything complex shown. I'd guess that's just down to some coding issue in the game.

This system is in no way optimised for gaming, OC'd or similar. I can only assume that the original poster hasn't a clue how to use a pc.

To show fps in mw2
steam/steamapps/common/call of duty modern warfare 2/players/config.cfg
Change
seta cg_drawFPS "Off"
too
seta cg_drawFPS "Simple"

Anyway the point is, the person who wrote the original article at vr-zone, is just posting nonsense. Of course there will be a huge performance hit when rendering huge resolutions over 3 screens, and more so if it's done 2 times for 3D. Since it wont be possible to run 5760 x 1200 across 3 screens on a single 285 anyway, the graph is kinda pointless (that's effectively over 6x 1080p resolutions worth of rendering) . It's obvious that such a setup will require Nvidia's new flagship card to run well - probabbly even that in SLI for such high end visuals. They are being released together.


------------- EDIT
I'm not actually 100% sure if the framerate literally halfs, the idea is the glasses actually cut your effective framerate in half, but the screen is supposed to show the same number of frames.

IE if a game in non 3d mode is giving 120fps, in 3d mode its STILL showing 120fps, but each alternate frame is slightly offset, and the GLASSES and not the screen stop your eye seeing every alternate frame. So the FPS is still 120fps, but each eye is only seeing 60fps.

Now I'm not sure if in a framerate counter this will still show up as 120fps, or through some quirk show up at 60fps.

Different games/Apps show the fps differently. In this MW2 scenario when 3DVision is turned on and fps is shown as being say 45fps, it is rendering 90 fps on the screen, 45 individual frames for each eye. (each eye synced to show the same point in time, but from a different angle).
 
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When using 3d vision you can turn off AA as it gives you AA anyway.

I just tested it on a gtx 280 stock with a 2.5ghz stock q2 quad core. Settings maxed, except DOF turned off. - as requested when the game starts in 3d.


Performance, as expected 3D Vision Off 90-120fps
Performance, as expected 3D Vision On 43-60fps
I played a few lvls and this was pretty much the average.

Smoke was the main fps killer, and some of the massive battles (which to be honest there are a fair few). There were also a couple off odd area's that made both 3D on and off fps to drop to the lower end where nothing was happening on screen or anything complex shown. I'd guess that's just down to some coding issue in the game.

This system is in no way optimised for gaming, OC'd or similar. I can only assume that the original poster hasn't a clue how to use a pc.

To show fps in mw2


Anyway the point is, the person who wrote the original article at vr-zone, is just posting nonsense. Of course there will be a huge performance hit when rendering huge resolutions over 3 screens, and more so if it's done 2 times for 3D. Since it wont be possible to run 5760 x 1200 across 3 screens on a single 285 anyway, the graph is kinda pointless (that's effectively over 6x 1080p resolutions worth of rendering) . It's obvious that such a setup will require Nvidia's new flagship card to run well - probabbly even that in SLI for such high end visuals. They are being released together.

You should send this post to the guy that wrote his 2 sentence article. Teach him a thing or two.
 
...

The biggest issue would be this, the glasses won't work well with surround, because they aren't melded to your eyeballs but a little away from your face. Any glasses user will tell you glasses compared to contact lenses the biggest difference is your peripheral vision and thats half the point of the "surround" part of this. If half the left and right screen is blocked by the glasses frames, then whats the point. Also being LCD's in the glasses frames I've heard also that they don't let in light from tight angles due to alignment, which means quite possibly even the bits of the left/right screen you can see will be next to impossible to see due to the angle which they sit to the glasses.
...

yup the whole glasses thing + surround just doesnt make sense to me.
 
Reading the translation then, for Nvidia 3d to work with multi screens all the screens have to be flat on to you (ie in the same plane) so the side screens can't be tilted towards you?
 
OK so after reading the google translation of the original article

original article translation
there are several things that really don't make too much sense to me, now i can agree a bit with the whole point of it not necessarily being surround if the monitors need to be flat in front of you rather than curved around you, even though i can see why they would need to be flat unless it distorts the image or something.
but the issue with the glasses themselves is quite frankly rubbish, Ive worn glasses for most of my life, and any loss of peripheral vision unfortunately is down to your eyes not working correctly not a fault of the glasses.

anyway this bit made me laugh

In one video card (the cheapest is already 2000 -) with ATI Eyefinity can involve up to three monitors (if you připlatíte and up to six monitors) and you will work both games and common applications. This solution requires no special monitors (just any LCD for 3 thousand with the right input), so no need to break pig.

no special monitors just any 3 lcd's with the right input...lol, i know what they mean but display port doesn't make it cheap by any means.


edit i see what your saying about the bulkiness of the 3d glasses, yes i suppose that might very well hinder things.
 
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What, just, what, the two different numbers shown are with 3d and without.

I'm not actually 100% sure if the framerate literally halfs, the idea is the glasses actually cut your effective framerate in half, but the screen is supposed to show the same number of frames.

I haven't tried 3D Vision but I used to use NVidia's stereoscopic drivers years ago with a 6800GT & a CRT monitor & enabling 3d showed the same 50%+ reduction in fps then.

Afaik the game renders the scene from 2 slightly offset camera positions, which is how you get the 3d effect & also why the framerate halves at least. Enabling 3d effectivley halves the refresh rate of the monitor on a 'per eye' basis for the shutter glasses, which is why you need a 120hz LCD monitor ( 60hz per eye on the glasses ). Using a 60hz LCD would murder your eyesight in about 30secs flat, never mind causing your optic nerve & brain to implode.
 
Reading the translation then, for Nvidia 3d to work with multi screens all the screens have to be flat on to you (ie in the same plane) so the side screens can't be tilted towards you?

That would make sense, unless a game/app was specifically coded to allow the peripheral monitors to be rotated.
Otherwise it would render the 3D depth in the incorrect perspective/angle. If you move about with the 3d glass's on the 3D position changes, they would need to know what angle the screens are at etc.

Also the 3D effect lessons slightly the further away off centre you are, all 3d solutions work in the same manner.
 
Thats quite hard performance hit, averaging 30 fps is really put me off. It must be unplayable in areas if it is.

Going to try find a better review than a one liner before i buy.
 
What, just, what, the two different numbers shown are with 3d and without.
Not really, it's the difference between single screen no 3d, and 3screens and 3d. The PC is effectively rendering 2 scenes at the same time for 3d, so it will approximately half the overall frame rate (but as you say it might cheat and add the two together to give you an "overall" frame rate.

Either way between best and worst figures, it's effectively 6 times as much work.
 
3D slide show. Why do the retards think gamming at 5760 x 1200 is possible ? And who the hell is planning on playing at that stupid letter box ratio anyway.

Meh, multi screen setup like this should be shot into space, along with the people that thought them up.
 
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