persuade me to watercool or not :)

[R.C.Anderson]

I'm wanting to create a new build within the next couple of months (ish), and I wanted to watercool it, although I'm not sure I want to spend as much money as it costs to do so.
I'll be spending a little over £1500 on the components, the parts I will want to watercool are the CPU (i7) and the GPU (either 5870, or more probably a 6000 series card if they come out soon enough) I haven't completely decided which case I'm going to get for it, although I'm keen on the HAF X (am very tempted by the PC-P80B, but it's too expensive for the extras (and it doesn't have a side window, so you won't be able to see the watercooling)
If I get the HAF X, I was thinking of mounting a triple radiator on the roof of the case (with the provided mounting holes), and mounting either a double, or triple at the front, at the bottom (removing/moving the HDD cage and cutting a hole in the bottom of the 5.25" bays to allow it to fit)

The water cooling kit I've speced out from this (from other than ocuk as I unfortunatly find that usually they have a reduced choice compared to others) but the components are:

• 12V Laing D5 Vario Pump (MCP655)w/EK D5 X-Top Rev.2
• ThermoChill PA120.3 - 360 Radiator (15mm) (x2)
• EK Multioption RES 100 Rev2
• EK-Supreme HF - Full Copper 775/1156/1366/AM3
• EK-FC5870 5870 CF - Acetal
• 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD XSPC UV Orange Hose 1m (x3)
• 1/4" BSPP - 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD Compression Fitting - Black Nickel (x12)

All comes to around £450

Is it any good, and is there a way I can reduce the cost by quite a lot without sacrificing much performance?

Thanks

 

[Boozebeard]

If you don't water cool I'll kill your dog and or cat and or granny.

You could decrease the costs without losing any performance by buying stuff second hand. I've been told you can do a decent water loop second had for £100, it would probably be closer to £150 when all things were said and done though.

 

[R.C.Anderson]

If you don't water cool I'll kill your dog and or cat and or granny.

lol

You could decrease the costs without losing any performance by buying stuff second hand. I've been told you can do a decent water loop second had for £100, it would probably be closer to £150 when all things were said and done though.

I didn't think about buying second hand, but that's probably a good idea, only problem is I can't get on the MM here (maybe I'll have to get onto a posting spree ) and I'm not sure how happy I would be getting it off the bay, as it would be quite easy for something to be wrong with it. If that price is attainable, then I don't think there's much argument against getting it, except the gfx card warrenty when I remove the HSF from it, How likely are there to be problems with it? Would it be ok if I just test it works with the normal fan (to check for DOA), then watercool it, or run it for a while etc?

 

[Big.Wayne]

Hello R.C.Anderson

• I'm wanting to create a new build within the next couple of months (ish)
• I wanted to watercool it
• I'm not sure I want to spend as much money as it costs to do so
• I'll be spending a little over £1500 on the components
• the parts I will want to watercool are the CPU (i7) and the GPU
• The water cooling kit I've speced comes to around £450
• Is it any good
• is there a way I can reduce the cost by quite a lot without sacrificing much performance?
• persuade me to watercool or not

So you have to ask yourself . . . . ultimately . . . what is the point of water-cooling?

What is a PC for? . . . A personal computer is a tool, it allows many people to do many different things, write a letter, play a game, edit some video, talk to someone on the other side of the world, design an engine, paint a picture etc . . .

So assuming you need the PC-tool to get the job done why bother going to all the time, effort and expense of water-cooling it? . . . what is water-cooling for? . . . It allows a computer to achieve a higher level of performance that would be very hard to match through air-cooling, it demonstrates a certain level of technical competence in the person who installed it and last but not least . . . it's looks quite nice!

So you have to ask yourself . . . how much performance do you "need" . . . are you intending to become a benchmarker and compete with other benchmarkers around the country/world . . . . is the money spent on water-cooling something you actually "need" or just something you "want"?

Is it important to you to get "admiration" from other people on your technical handiwork or do you not really care what other people think and just want to spend £450 on something you don't actually need? . . . or are you trying to demonstrate to yourself that you have the skill to put a water-cooled system together or just simply like the way it looks and think it will be a nice visual thing in your bedroom/front room/office etc?

I do not understand why people who are *not* benchmarker bother water-cooling myself . . . apart from the way it looks . . . I personally think some of these U.V water-cooled system look very nice but could never "Justify" the expense myself . . .

What is most important I think is what the computer can actually do and not the way it looks . . . modern hardware has become extremely powerful so Overclocking is not as important to some as maybe it once was . . . the PC's are slowly learning to overclock themselves and a lot of the hardware today runs cooler than the hardware of yesteryear . . . so apart from the benchmarkers and the people that like the "look" I don't see that water-cooling is very important to the typical computer enthusiast?

You mention spending £1500 on a computer? . . . and £450 on Water-cooling . . . I wonder what do you actually do with your computer? . . how much performance do you need? . . . and what else can you spend your money on? . . and do you have any other hobbies?

I like to play computer games myself . . . that pretty much is the most demanding task I throw at the PC . . . the money you are considering spending on water-cooling alone I would build myself a spare LAN gaming machine that I could take over to a friends house or just have spare at my house so that when a mate came to visit we could do some gaming for a few hours . . .

Nice little 2010 gaming box that . . . even could use that as a main PC if you wanted and you were not a benchmarker . . . and although it wouldn't look as impressive as a machine with £450's worth of water cooling it's what the machine could actually do that would be most interesting to most people . . .

Water-cooling has its place, for use by the right people in the right way, but everyone I personally know in the Real-World would much prefer to sit down with me at mine playing some sweet games on a second machine instead of watching me sitting there on a £1500 water-cooled machine playing a game by myself! . . .

Given a finite amount of money, a social life, other hobbies and the knowledge that the PC is a tool that is used to perform a task I prefer to focus on the tasks it can perform and not become too obsessed by the machine itself! . . a water cooled machine definitely looks aesthetically pleasing, that's pretty much the only thing I find appealing about it myself . . . but even the most "Bling" machine cannot compete for my attention and keep my eyes away from the wondrous visual being rendered on the screen in realtime!

persuade me to watercool or not

 

[TruffleShuffle]

I have had both Air and Watercooling (and toyed with the idea of Phase change), but it all seems a bit redundant for what i was looking for.

I thought, "ahh water cooling great a nice silent PC". Nope. Its completely daft but MOST watercooling setups still use fans to cool the water. So you still get the same level of noise, except you also get a low drone the whole time from the pump.

If you're going to water cool for a noise reduction, and you're stil using fans then you're not going to get one really (unless you have a very noisy GFX card that you plan to watercool).

However if you want watercooling for it's looks then think about the money you are spending just so that you can have a pretty thing on your desk. (and remember that no one else will care one jot that you have it).

Having been there, i would only go back if I was completely flush with cash (didnt have anything i wanted to buy), and needed a hobby.

 

[bifday2k]

I do not understand why people who are *not* benchmarker bother water-cooling myself . . . apart from the way it looks . . . I personally think some of these U.V water-cooled system look very nice but could never "Justify" the expense myself . . .

To have a quieter system perhaps without the loss of cooling performance.

I know for one, if i had my cpu air cooled, i wouldn't fold half as much as i do due to the noise as my computer is in my bed room.

Now i can't speak for others, but for me its not about looks, or uber clocking performance (nice but not what i was after), it was for quieting down my pc.

Its why a lot of people watercool there Gpu's so they get rid of the fan noise, and ok they run a lot cooler too.

If you're going to water cool for a noise reduction, and you're stil using fans then you're not going to get one really (unless you have a very noisy GFX card that you plan to watercool).

Well if you set it up right so u don't need fast spinning fans, then they are barely noticeable, my rad fans run at 700rpm, even when my system is under load, with my case fans at 500rpm, yes they are still fans, but at that speed you have to get really close to the system to hear them.

 

[Theophany]

If you need to be convinced to do it, I'd say either don't do it or go for a self-sealed nut such as a CoolIt Eco/Vantage or Corsair H50/H70. It doesn't match the performance of a custom loop, but it's quicker and easier to fit and has zero maintenance.

Custom water cooling is an endeavour that you shouldn't take lightly if you're going to do it, you have to maintain it carefully, ensure you do everything properly and don't cut corners. I'm not trying to put you off it at all, just making sure you know what you're getting in to. For £450 you could get yourself a Vapochill unit which would be far more effective at cooling than a water loop and again, requires next to no maintenance.

 

[R.C.Anderson]

Big.Wayne, thanks for all that, I'll see what I can answer for it now:

So you have to ask yourself . . . . ultimately . . . what is the point of water-cooling?

What is a PC for? . . . A personal computer is a tool, it allows many people to do many different things, write a letter, play a game, edit some video, talk to someone on the other side of the world, design an engine, paint a picture etc . . .

So assuming you need the PC-tool to get the job done why bother going to all the time, effort and expense of water-cooling it? . . . what is water-cooling for? . . . It allows a computer to achieve a higher level of performance that would be very hard to match through air-cooling, it demonstrates a certain level of technical competence in the person who installed it and last but not least . . . it's looks quite nice!

For me, it's better cooling performance, whilst reducing noise, and improving the looks of the PC. I use my PC for gaming, and working.

So you have to ask yourself . . . how much performance do you "need" . . . are you intending to become a benchmarker and compete with other benchmarkers around the country/world . . . . is the money spent on water-cooling something you actually "need" or just something you "want"?

As much as I don't want to admit it, it's a "want" factor, not a "need factor...

Is it important to you to get "admiration" from other people on your technical handiwork or do you not really care what other people think and just want to spend £450 on something you don't actually need? . . . or are you trying to demonstrate to yourself that you have the skill to put a water-cooled system together or just simply like the way it looks and think it will be a nice visual thing in your bedroom/front room/office etc?

It's not exactly important to get admiration, although it's definatly nice Although it is a little to prove to myself that I can go it. I built myself my first PC when I was 8 (in 99), so although building a PC is still fun, it's a little old school for me, so I want to try something different.

You mention spending £1500 on a computer? . . . and £450 on Water-cooling . . . I wonder what do you actually do with your computer? . . how much performance do you need? . . . and what else can you spend your money on? . . and do you have any other hobbies?

As mentioned above, it will be mostly gaming, with some work included. The main reason I'm spending this much, is that I've always wanted a really high end PC, and as I've been (either lucky, or clever, or maybe a bit of both ) enough to get a sponsorship during my degree, I have some disposable funds, so I decided now's a good time to fulfill my wish, then when I leave Uni into the real world, I'll have allready done this, and will not feel quite the need to buy such high end equipment. The money that will be going to the PC won't be coming from anything essential (I won't starve myself for a month to pay for it ), although, as you mentioned, I do have other hobbies it could be spent on (although other could be quite easily as/more expensive), I'm also into photography, kayaking, and cycling, although I have good enough equipment for my other hobbies, and although I would like to upgrade my camera and/or lenses, I use my PC a huge amount more.

I like to play computer games myself . . . that pretty much is the most demanding task I throw at the PC . . . the money you are considering spending on water-cooling alone I would build myself a spare LAN gaming machine that I could take over to a friends house or just have spare at my house so that when a mate came to visit we could do some gaming for a few hours . . .

Nice little 2010 gaming box that . . . even could use that as a main PC if you wanted and you were not a benchmarker . . . and although it wouldn't look as impressive as a machine with £450's worth of water cooling it's what the machine could actually do that would be most interesting to most people . . .

Water-cooling has its place, for use by the right people in the right way, but everyone I personally know in the Real-World would much prefer to sit down with me at mine playing some sweet games on a second machine instead of watching me sitting there on a £1500 water-cooled machine playing a game by myself! . . .

I do have my current PC, which whilst not great, is playable at low (ish) settings on games (guts are a 4870, OCed pentium dual core, 4GB RAM) although I may be selling/passing the PC on to a brother, as I can't warrent the cost of having a second PC for the occasional time that a mate is round at mine and wan'ts to play some games, espcially as I'm house sharing at Uni next year (and quite possibly after that) with those that would be most likely to do this, therefore their own PC is allready there.



Thanks for all the input, although with me being as indecisive as I am, I still can't choose what to do (and probably won't finally untill I buy the PC, and either get WC at the same time, or not) But the more input I get in the mean time, will help my decide when that time comes

 

[Hagar]

Passive cooling is the way to go which removes watercooling as an option. You still need motive power for the water. If you are benchmarking and overclocking, this is not easy.

I believe that removing mechanical noise and moving parts is far more satisfying than the complex and expensive cooling by fluids. It is also a far better environmental solution.

andy

 

[R.C.Anderson]

If you need to be convinced to do it, I'd say either don't do it or go for a self-sealed nut such as a CoolIt Eco/Vantage or Corsair H50/H70. It doesn't match the performance of a custom loop, but it's quicker and easier to fit and has zero maintenance.

Custom water cooling is an endeavour that you shouldn't take lightly if you're going to do it, you have to maintain it carefully, ensure you do everything properly and don't cut corners. I'm not trying to put you off it at all, just making sure you know what you're getting in to. For £450 you could get yourself a Vapochill unit which would be far more effective at cooling than a water loop and again, requires next to no maintenance.

If I do go Watercooling, I will fully commit, and don't mine the maintenance, it's only the inital start up cost that's putting me off a little.

If I don't go custom water, I will most probably just go for a high end air cooler, they're almost the same performance as the all in one watercooler, and are cheaper.

I will definatly not going for phase change though, as this introduces loads more problems, and whilst it may not require maintenance, it requires a lot more work to begin with to ensure there won't be any future problem with condensation.

 

[Theophany]

If you're happy to commit to it, I'd definitely encourage it. Get yourself some good overclocking components and jump in the deep end, there's tons of expertise here on the forums and members are more than happy to help out with specs and troubleshooting. You couldn't be on better forums for a helping hand!!

 

[Big.Wayne]

I use my PC for gaming, and working

Its why a lot of people watercool there Gpu's so they get rid of the fan noise, and ok they run a lot cooler too.

Hmmm interesting . . . I suppose that depends

• If you wear a gaming headset when you game
• If you have a set of thunderous 5:1 speakers
• What kinda games you play
• If your GPU has a noisy or quiet heatsink/fan

I kinda see that people with heaps of GPU's that don't game and instead use them for F@H etc may be disturbed by the fan noise but for people playing a typical game to feel they needed to spend £100's of pounds to silence a noise they can't really notice while gaming? . . . seems kinda like a gratuitous luxury to me?

I do have my current PC, which whilst not great, is playable at low (ish) settings on games (guts are a 4870, OCed pentium dual core, 4GB RAM) although I may be selling/passing the PC on to a brother, as I can't warrent the cost of having a second PC

Hmmm, so you have an older LGA775 dual-core and you think you now "need" a £1500 Intel® Core™ i7 system to enjoy gaming?

I can't warrent the cost of having a second PC

How can you "warrant the cost" of a £1500 quid machine for the meagre task of just gaming?

For me, it's better cooling performance

How can you "justify" a £450 cooling system just so your PC runs cooler? . . . is the money giving you any actual "value" that is tangible? . . . what difference does it make to you in the Real-World if you PC is running 5°C-10°C higher or lower? . . . if your not a benchmarker then just turn down the performance and voltage?

Will you games run any better? . . . will your "work" be any better?

Are you building a very expensive machine and then adding on a very expensive cooling system to cool down the performance you are not actually using? . . . if you were to build a system you actually "needed" and didn't have every single piece of hardware running at its hottest possible you could use very quiet aircooling and save yourself a lot of time, effort and money £££

As much as I don't want to admit it, it's a "want" factor, not a "need factor...

 

[MumboJumbo]

Please stop putting three fullstops big.wayne .

I can't really add too much to the thread but it was bugging the hell out of me haha. I plan on watercooling my pc when I get out of uni. The thought of transporting a water cooled pc about is just too scarey.

Personaly I would only water cool if you planned to overclock to the top end. Apart from that the only reason to overclock is because its something to play with and will reduce the sound a little. The pumps still make noice though.

Though I'm starting to wish my cpu was under water so I could put it up to 3.6ghz. But It would be far better to just upgrade it.