Anyone up on employment laws? r.e hours or work & contracts
- Thread starter AsaTDi
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Soldato
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iirc as your a carer you can request your employer to change your hours, or at least to consider it
http://www.carersuk.org/help-and-ad...yO3M6NjoiaG91cnMnIjtpOjM7czo2OiJob3VyJ3MiO30=
http://www.carersuk.org/help-and-ad...yO3M6NjoiaG91cnMnIjtpOjM7czo2OiJob3VyJ3MiO30=
Soldato
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Depends on your carer demands, but from what you have said you are legally entitled to request flexible working to allow you to continue to provide car for your mother.
My first step would be to fish with the other employees, if you can manage to do the 6-2 shift then perhaps someone else doesnt fancy it and part of the request could be that you will do early and the other person will do late.
Anyway, you can make a request in writing and your employer is obliged to consider it, they can refuse but they must be able to demonstrate that it would cause a hardship from a fairly specific list (actually demonstrate the reason for refusal, not simply refuse on the basis of one of these criteria without legitimate cause to).
My first step would be to fish with the other employees, if you can manage to do the 6-2 shift then perhaps someone else doesnt fancy it and part of the request could be that you will do early and the other person will do late.
Anyway, you can make a request in writing and your employer is obliged to consider it, they can refuse but they must be able to demonstrate that it would cause a hardship from a fairly specific list (actually demonstrate the reason for refusal, not simply refuse on the basis of one of these criteria without legitimate cause to).
Your contract says that you must work extra hours on demand for no money? That clause doesn't have much hope of standing up in court.
I think you'd have a good shot at fighting your corner if you spent your evenings drunkenly shouting at the TV. That you spend them caring for someone else strengthens your argument enormously.
Employment law is strongly biased in favour of the employee. Disciplinary action would be interesting - take a union rep along if it goes that far. Otherwise the stance of "no, I'm not changing my contract to suit you, as I must care for my mother" seems solid.
edit: Turns out I'm badly wrong there. The contract term is fine. Look into "associative discrimination" claims, under the equality act 2010. Your employer is required to make "reasonable adjustments", though they may disagree on what constitutes "reasonable". The other option is "implied breach of contract" claim e.g. unfair dismissal if you walk out because of the change. Working the same hours for 5 years is an implied term of the contract - though again they may disagree.
Maintain a written record of everything your employer is telling you and ask for a copy of the firms disciplinary policy (if you're lucky, they haven't written one). Ensure that they are then acting in accordance with it.
ACAS "should" be useful for free advice, otherwise there's the citizens advice bureau or someone from your union (if you're a member). Proper, non-computing forum legal advice would seem prudent at this point.
I think you'd have a good shot at fighting your corner if you spent your evenings drunkenly shouting at the TV. That you spend them caring for someone else strengthens your argument enormously.
Employment law is strongly biased in favour of the employee. Disciplinary action would be interesting - take a union rep along if it goes that far. Otherwise the stance of "no, I'm not changing my contract to suit you, as I must care for my mother" seems solid.
edit: Turns out I'm badly wrong there. The contract term is fine. Look into "associative discrimination" claims, under the equality act 2010. Your employer is required to make "reasonable adjustments", though they may disagree on what constitutes "reasonable". The other option is "implied breach of contract" claim e.g. unfair dismissal if you walk out because of the change. Working the same hours for 5 years is an implied term of the contract - though again they may disagree.
Maintain a written record of everything your employer is telling you and ask for a copy of the firms disciplinary policy (if you're lucky, they haven't written one). Ensure that they are then acting in accordance with it.
ACAS "should" be useful for free advice, otherwise there's the citizens advice bureau or someone from your union (if you're a member). Proper, non-computing forum legal advice would seem prudent at this point.
Last edited:
Soldato
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Nah, with one or two exceptions, you cannot contract out of legislation.
I get the feeling this company doesnt have HR... sounds like a small company where the boss/owner thinks he is god and that you are a bonded slave when you work for him.
My advice would be to talk to other staff and see of anyone will help out, while looking for a job elsewhere.
most contracts do? :S
Most contracts do have that statement yes and as far as I am aware it's perfectly fine for them to do so, at the end of the day you don't have to take the job. Not the OP's isse (or main issue) here though, I'd follow the links given, possibly take some legal advice but definitely start looking for a new job now.
Yep, apparently so. Oops
Yeah this isn't unusual for salaried jobs - some have exceptions for out of hours work or if you work over a certain number of extra hours but most will try to dodge out of paying anything extra. If it was an hourly paid job it would be a different matter.
As to the OP hes pretty much screwed, the only thing they don't seem to have done right is give a long enough notice period but even if you kick up a fuss on that aspect it just delays the inevitable.
1) Don't walk out, it will reflect badly on you should this go further ie. tribunal or if your next employer asks for a reference. That is the last thing you should do.
2) If the employer has a justifiable business need, then as others have said there is nothing you can do. The wording in your contract states you work shifts and that your shifts can change so by that wording you have no comeback on that side its fairly common clause for shift work and to be honest expected when you work 'shifts'. The employer does not have to make adjustments if it has a justifiable business need and any adjustment has to be reasonable to the business and yourself. We don't have the full information here to make that call and a judge is the only person that can make that call.
3) I would look into the state of the business if any kind of restructuring is happening, business may be winding down or booming. But if its the former, its time to jump ship anyway.
4) Look for a new job.
2) If the employer has a justifiable business need, then as others have said there is nothing you can do. The wording in your contract states you work shifts and that your shifts can change so by that wording you have no comeback on that side its fairly common clause for shift work and to be honest expected when you work 'shifts'. The employer does not have to make adjustments if it has a justifiable business need and any adjustment has to be reasonable to the business and yourself. We don't have the full information here to make that call and a judge is the only person that can make that call.
3) I would look into the state of the business if any kind of restructuring is happening, business may be winding down or booming. But if its the former, its time to jump ship anyway.
4) Look for a new job.
Put in a request for flexible working.
Have a look here :
https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working
Is it only you being asked to change shift patterns?
Have a look here :
https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working
Is it only you being asked to change shift patterns?
I'm encouraged to post that employment law does not follow "common sense" very closely, advice from this forum on points of law is a series of guesses at what the right answer might be.
The better half (lawyer, but not in employment) assures me this is the case. "Associative discrimination" and "implied breach of contract" are vague but the correct terms. Good luck OP
edit: as in not in "employment law", not as in "recently fired"
The better half (lawyer, but not in employment) assures me this is the case. "Associative discrimination" and "implied breach of contract" are vague but the correct terms. Good luck OP
edit: as in not in "employment law", not as in "recently fired"
Your contract does not give you a great deal of hope. That said, it could be arguable that, after working the same pattern for a period of 5 years, a de facto contractual pattern has been developed. The problem with this is that you would only be able to prove the point by suing for breach of contract - which is not a good route to go down.
Your employer is, however, falling down in two areas.
Firstly, in order to implement a change in working pattern, your employer is required to provide reasonable notice. As ever, the law does not define "reasonable" but I would suggest this to be four weeks or thirty days. If you have just been told to start the changed pattern on Monday then that is clearly not reasonable and you would be within your rights to refuse.
Secondly, by refusing to consider the fact that you care for a relative with a disability, your employer is technically committing an act of disability discrimination. You need, without delay, to provide your employer something in writing to explain that you do not agree with the change and the reason - labouring particularly on how it will impinge upon your ability to care for your parent. Once done let us know the reaction - since your next move will be dependent upon that.
Your employer is, however, falling down in two areas.
Firstly, in order to implement a change in working pattern, your employer is required to provide reasonable notice. As ever, the law does not define "reasonable" but I would suggest this to be four weeks or thirty days. If you have just been told to start the changed pattern on Monday then that is clearly not reasonable and you would be within your rights to refuse.
Secondly, by refusing to consider the fact that you care for a relative with a disability, your employer is technically committing an act of disability discrimination. You need, without delay, to provide your employer something in writing to explain that you do not agree with the change and the reason - labouring particularly on how it will impinge upon your ability to care for your parent. Once done let us know the reaction - since your next move will be dependent upon that.
Associate
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I know you dont want to work these hours but have they offered you a shift allowance given your be moving on to some type of shift pattern? not to sure if this applies in your case but it might be something to say to help your case for working your normal hours if they suddenly find legally they are required to offer a uplift in salary for new shift hours. (This could all be rubbish info but when I have ever had to work a shift pattern I have always been paid a shift allowance.)