Freehold vs Leasehold

Caporegime
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Should the fact a property is leasehold put you off 'buying' a property? The lease is substantial around 900 years, so it shouldn't make ANY difference right?

Are leasehold properties slightly cheaper than freehold in general?
 
Leasehold shouldn't really make any difference, yes you pay a premium for freehold but in my experience they're basically the same.
 
Have a search there's been at least 2 threads discussing this exact thing in the last month or so.
 
Yes as long as its a long lease ( 800 years + ) and cheap ground rent like £20 a year then go for it.

The only issue could be if the house comes with a large plot, such as an acre or more, then comes the remote possibility of the landowner trying to get permission to build something else on the remaining land.
 
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800+ year lease?

Im in the process of buying at the moment. The lease on the property is 119 years which is more than enough. I can just renew the lease in ~20 years time.
 
Personally i would not buy a leasehold property but I suppose if you are looking at flats you may have little choice
 
Renewing the lease is about 9k every 20 years, so not a massive amount. I believe its possible to buy the freehold, but not sure on the cost of this
 
Might also be worth looking into whether you have an option to buy into the freehold. If the Freehold isn't owned by a property developer or such, and is owned by all the residents, you might be able allowed to join, but they will set the price.
 
My house is free hold, but as my garage has a FOG (Flot Over Garage) ie Coach house on top of it, the garage is lease hold as the owner of the flat owns the land.

That is on a 999 year lease with a peppercorn rent of 99p :)

Leasehold would put me off property wise, but in the case of a garage for 999 years i wasnt worried.
 
I'd prefer freehold, but to be honest, if you're talking about over 150 years for the lease then you've got nothing to worry about.
 
I used to own a leasehold property. It was fine until we wanted to sell up. They wanted a £400 admin fee to photocopy some documents needed for the sale. We really had no choice to pay it as it was holding up the sale.

So, it's worth checking who you'll be paying the ground rent to and how much they charge for such things.
 
I work in Housing and my first property was Leasehold. Unless it is your first property to get on the ladder I suggest Freehold if you can. Unforseen bills can hit your letter box as part of the Section 20 notices. When I purchased my freehold property my overall costs were not higher. Sure a long lease is definately required but if the flat is old and hasn't had much work done prepare for a BIG bill! In essence when you are a Leaseholder you own the internal walls and nothing much else.
 
As Bluebook has said, I would avoid becoming a Leaseholder like the black death!

I also work in social housing as well, the thing is the landlord has the legal duty to carry out repairs and improvements to the communal block as they see fit and and provide a valid case for the works to be carried out. Any works that costs over £250 a percentage will be passed onto the leaseholder that will be in their lease argeement as laid out in the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 section 20.

Extract of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 Section 20:

20 Limitation of service charges: consultation requirementsE+W.(1)Where this section applies to any qualifying works or qualifying long term agreement, the relevant contributions of tenants are limited in accordance with subsection (6) or (7) (or both) unless the consultation requirements have been either— .
(a)complied with in relation to the works or agreement, or .
(b)dispensed with in relation to the works or agreement by (or on appeal from) a leasehold valuation tribunal. .
(2)In this section “relevant contribution”, in relation to a tenant and any works or agreement, is the amount which he may be required under the terms of his lease to contribute (by the payment of service charges) to relevant costs incurred on carrying out the works or under the agreement. .
(3)This section applies to qualifying works if relevant costs incurred on carrying out the works exceed an appropriate amount. .
(4)The Secretary of State may by regulations provide that this section applies to a qualifying long term agreement— .
(a)if relevant costs incurred under the agreement exceed an appropriate amount, or .
(b)if relevant costs incurred under the agreement during a period prescribed by the regulations exceed an appropriate amount. .
(5)An appropriate amount is an amount set by regulations made by the Secretary of State; and the regulations may make provision for either or both of the following to be an appropriate amount— .
(a)an amount prescribed by, or determined in accordance with, the regulations, and .
(b)an amount which results in the relevant contribution of any one or more tenants being an amount prescribed by, or determined in accordance with, the regulations. .
(6)Where an appropriate amount is set by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (5), the amount of the relevant costs incurred on carrying out the works or under the agreement which may be taken into account in determining the relevant contributions of tenants is limited to the appropriate amount. .
(7)Where an appropriate amount is set by virtue of paragraph (b) of that subsection, the amount of the relevant contribution of the tenant, or each of the tenants, whose relevant contribution would otherwise exceed the amount prescribed by, or determined in accordance with, the regulations is limited to the amount so prescribed or determined.] .
Annotations:
Annotations are used to give authority for changes and other effects on the legislation you are viewing and to convey editorial information. They appear at the foot of the relevant provision or under the associated heading. Annotations are categorised by annotation type, such as F-notes for textual amendments and I-notes for commencement information (a full list can be found in the Editorial Practice Guide). Each annotation is identified by a sequential reference number. For F-notes, M-notes and X-notes, the number also appears in bold superscript at the relevant location in the text. All annotations contain links to the affecting legislation.

Amendments (Textual)

F18Ss. 20, 20ZA substituted (26.7.2002 for E. for certain purposes otherwise 31.10.2003 and 1.1.2003 for W. for certain purposes and otherwise 30.3.2004) for s. 20 by 2002 c. 15, s. 151; S.I. 2002/1912, art. 2(c); 2002/3012, art. 2(c); S.I. 2003/1986, art. 3(1) (subject to art. 3(2)-(7)); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(d) (subject to art. 2(d)(i)-(vi))

Modifications etc. (not altering text)

C21Ss. 18-30 modified (30.9.2003 for E. and 30.3.2004 for W.) by 2002 c. 15, ss. 102, 181(1), Sch. 7 para. 4; S.I. 2003/1986, art. 2(a); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(a)

Ss. 18-30B extended (30.9.2003 and 28.2.2005 for E. for certain purposes and otherwise prosp. and 30.3.2004 and 31.5.2005 for W. for certain purposes and otherwise prosp.) by 2002 c. 15, ss. 172, 181(1); S.I. 2003/1986, art. 2(c)(ii) (subject to Sch. 2); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(c)(ii) (subject to Sch. 2); S.I. 2004/3056, art. 3(h) (subject to art. 4 (as amended by S.I. 2005/193, art. 2)); S.I. 2005/1353, art. 2(h) (subject to art. 3)

C22S. 20 applied (E.) (31.10.2003) by The Service Charges (Consultation Requirements) (England) Regulations 2003 (S.I. 2003/1987), reg. 4(1)

F1920ZA Consultation requirements: supplementaryE+W.(1)Where an application is made to a leasehold valuation tribunal for a determination to dispense with all or any of the consultation requirements in relation to any qualifying works or qualifying long term agreement, the tribunal may make the determination if satisfied that it is reasonable to dispense with the requirements. .
(2)In section 20 and this section— .
“qualifying works” means works on a building or any other premises, and
“qualifying long term agreement” means (subject to subsection (3)) an agreement entered into, by or on behalf of the landlord or a superior landlord, for a term of more than twelve months.
(3)The Secretary of State may by regulations provide that an agreement is not a qualifying long term agreement— .
(a)if it is an agreement of a description prescribed by the regulations, or .
(b)in any circumstances so prescribed. .
(4)In section 20 and this section “the consultation requirements” means requirements prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State. .
(5)Regulations under subsection (4) may in particular include provision requiring the landlord— .
(a)to provide details of proposed works or agreements to tenants or the recognised tenants’ association representing them, .
(b)to obtain estimates for proposed works or agreements, .
(c)to invite tenants or the recognised tenants’ association to propose the names of persons from whom the landlord should try to obtain other estimates, .
(d)to have regard to observations made by tenants or the recognised tenants’ association in relation to proposed works or agreements and estimates, and .
(e)to give reasons in prescribed circumstances for carrying out works or entering into agreements. .
(6)Regulations under section 20 or this section— .
(a)may make provision generally or only in relation to specific cases, and .
(b)may make different provision for different purposes. .
(7)Regulations under section 20 or this section shall be made by statutory instrument which shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament. .
Annotations:
Annotations are used to give authority for changes and other effects on the legislation you are viewing and to convey editorial information. They appear at the foot of the relevant provision or under the associated heading. Annotations are categorised by annotation type, such as F-notes for textual amendments and I-notes for commencement information (a full list can be found in the Editorial Practice Guide). Each annotation is identified by a sequential reference number. For F-notes, M-notes and X-notes, the number also appears in bold superscript at the relevant location in the text. All annotations contain links to the affecting legislation.

Amendments (Textual)

F19Ss. 20, 20ZA substituted (26.7.2002 for E. for certain purposes and otherwise 31.10.2003 and 1.1.2003 for W. for certain purposes and otherwise 30.3.2004) for s. 20 by 2002 c. 15, s. 151; S.I. 2002/1912, art. 2(c); 2002/3012, art. 2(c); S.I. 2003/1986, art. 3(1) (subject to art. 3(2)-(7)); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(d) (subject to art. 2(d)(i)-(vi))

Modifications etc. (not altering text)

C23Ss. 18-30 modified (30.9.2003 for E. and 30.3.2004 for W.) by 2002 c. 15, ss. 102, 181(1), Sch. 7 para. 4; S.I. 2003/1986, art. 2(a); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(a)

Ss. 18-30B extended (30.9.2003 and 28.2.2005 for E. for certain purposes and otherwise prosp. and 30.3.2004 and 31.5.2005 for W. for certain purposes and otherwise prosp.) by 2002 c. 15, ss. 172, 181(1); S.I. 2003/1986, art. 2(c)(ii) (subject to Sch. 2); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(c)(ii) (subject to Sch. 2); S.I. 2004/3056, art. 3(h) (subject to art. 4 (as amended by S.I. 2005/193, art. 2)); S.I. 2005/1353, art. 2(h) (subject to art. 3)

[F2020A Limitation of service charges: grant-aided works.E+W.Where relevant costs are incurred or to be incurred on the carrying out of works in respect of which a grant has been or is to be paid under [F21section 523 of the Housing Act 1985 (assistance for provision of separate service pipe for water supply) or any provision of Part I of the Housing Grants, Construction and Regeneration Act 1996 (grants, &c. for renewal of private sector housing) or any corresponding earlier enactment][F22or article 3 of the Regulatory Reform (Housing Assistance) (England and Wales) Order 2002 (power of local housing authorieses to provide assistance)], the amount of the grant shall be deducted from the costs and the amount of the service charge payable shall be reduced accordingly.
[F23(2)In any case where— .
(a)relevant costs are incurred or to be incurred on the carrying out of works which are included in the external works specified in a group repair scheme, within the meaning of [F24Part I of the Housing Grants, Construction and Regeneration Act 1996], and .
(b)the landlord participated or is participating in that scheme as an assisted participant, .
the amount which, in relation to the landlord, is [F25the balance of the cost determined in accordance with section 69(3) of the Housing Grants, Construction and Regeneration Act 1996] shall be deducted from the costs, and the amount of the service charge payable shall be reduced accordingly.]]
Annotations:
Annotations are used to give authority for changes and other effects on the legislation you are viewing and to convey editorial information. They appear at the foot of the relevant provision or under the associated heading. Annotations are categorised by annotation type, such as F-notes for textual amendments and I-notes for commencement information (a full list can be found in the Editorial Practice Guide). Each annotation is identified by a sequential reference number. For F-notes, M-notes and X-notes, the number also appears in bold superscript at the relevant location in the text. All annotations contain links to the affecting legislation.

Amendments (Textual)

F20S. 20A inserted by Housing and Planning Act 1986 (c. 63, SIF 75:1), s. 24(1), Sch. 5 para. 9(1)

F21Words in s. 20A(1) substituted (17.12.1996) by 1996 c. 53, s. 103, Sch. 1 para. 11(1); S.I. 1996/2842, art. 3

F22Words in s. 20A(1) inserted (19.7.2002) by S.I. 2002/1860, arts. 1(2)(b), 9, Sch. 1 para. 2

F23S. 20A(2) added by Local Government and Housing Act 1989 (c. 42, SIF 75:1), s. 194, Sch. 11 para. 90

F24Words in s. 20A(2)(a) substituted (17.12.1996) by 1996 c. 53, s. 103, Sch. 1 para. 11(2)(a); S.I. 1996/2842, art. 3

F25Words in s. 20A(2) substituted (17.12.1996) by 1996 c. 53, Sch. 1 para. 11(2)(b); S.I. 1996/2842, art. 3

Modifications etc. (not altering text)

C24Ss. 18-30 modified (30.9.2003 for E. and 30.3.2004 for W.) by 2002 c. 15, ss. 102, 181(1), Sch. 7 para. 4; S.I. 2003/1986, art. 2(a); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(a)

Ss. 18-30B extended (30.9.2003 and 28.2.2005 for E. for certain purposes and otherwise prosp. and 30.3.2004 and 31.5.2005 for W. for certain purposes and otherwise prosp.) by 2002 c. 15, ss. 172, 181(1); S.I. 2003/1986, art. 2(c)(ii) (subject to Sch. 2); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(c)(ii) (subject to Sch. 2); S.I. 2004/3056, art. 3(h) (subject to art. 4 (as amended by S.I. 2005/193, art. 2)); S.I. 2005/1353, art. 2(h) (subject to art. 3)

C25S. 20A amended by Housing Act 1988 (c. 50, SIF 61), s. 79(12)

C26Ss. 18-30 modified (1.4.1995) by S.I. 1995/401, art. 18, Sch. para. 10(b)

Ss. 18-30 extended (5.7.1994) by 1994 c. 19, ss. 39, 66(2)(b), Sch. 13 para. 23(b) (with ss. 54(5)(7), 55(5), Sch. 17 paras. 22(1), 23(2))

[F2620B Limitation of service charges: time limit on making demands. E+W.(1)If any of the relevant costs taken into account in determining the amount of any service charge were incurred more than 18 months before a demand for payment of the service charge is served on the tenant, then (subject to subsection (2) ), the tenant shall not be liable to pay so much of the service charge as reflects the costs so incurred. .
(2)Subsection (1) shall not apply if, within the period of 18 months beginning with the date when the relevant costs in question were incurred, the tenant was notified in writing that those costs had been incurred and that he would subsequently be required under the terms of his lease to contribute to them by the payment of a service charge.] .
Annotations:
Annotations are used to give authority for changes and other effects on the legislation you are viewing and to convey editorial information. They appear at the foot of the relevant provision or under the associated heading. Annotations are categorised by annotation type, such as F-notes for textual amendments and I-notes for commencement information (a full list can be found in the Editorial Practice Guide). Each annotation is identified by a sequential reference number. For F-notes, M-notes and X-notes, the number also appears in bold superscript at the relevant location in the text. All annotations contain links to the affecting legislation.

Amendments (Textual)

F26Ss. 20B, 20C inserted by Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 (c. 31, SIF 75:1), s. 41, Sch. 2 para. 4

Modifications etc. (not altering text)

C27S. 20B amended by Housing Act 1988 (c. 50, SIF 61), s. 79(12)

C28Ss. 18-30 modified (30.9.2003 for E. and 30.3.2004 for W.) by 2002 c. 15, ss. 102, 181(1), Sch. 7 para. 4; S.I. 2003/1986, art. 2(a); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(a)

Ss. 18-30B extended (30.9.2003 and 28.2.2005 for E. for certain purposes and otherwise prosp. and 30.3.2004 and 31.5.2005 for W. for certain purposes and otherwise prosp.) by 2002 c. 15, ss. 172, 181(1); S.I. 2003/1986, art. 2(c)(ii) (subject to Sch. 2); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(c)(ii) (subject to Sch. 2); S.I. 2004/3056, art. 3(h) (subject to art. 4 (as amended by S.I. 2005/193, art. 2)); S.I. 2005/1353, art. 2(h) (subject to art. 3)

C29Ss. 18-30 modified (1.4.1995) by S.I. 1995/401, art. 18, Sch. para. 10(b)

Ss. 18-30 extended (5.7.1994) by 1994 c. 19, ss. 39, 66(2)(b), Sch. 13 para. 23(b) (with ss. 54(5)(7), 55(5), Sch. 17 paras. 22(1), 23(2))

C30S. 20B(2) modified by S.I. 1988/1283, art. 2, Sch. para. 6

[F2720C Limitation of service charges: costs of proceedings.E+W.(1)A tenant may make an application for an order that all or any of the costs incurred, or to be incurred, by the landlord in connection with proceedings before a court [F28, residential property tribunal] or leasehold valuation tribunal, or the [F29Upper Tribunal], or in connection with arbitration proceedings, are not to be regarded as relevant costs to be taken into account in determining the amount of any service charge payable by the tenant or any other person or persons specified in the application. .
(2)The application shall be made— .
(a)in the case of court proceedings, to the court before which the proceedings are taking place or, if the application is made after the proceedings are concluded, to a county court; .
[F30(aa)in the case of proceedings before a residential property tribunal, to a leasehold valuation tribunal;] .
(b)in the case of proceedings before a leasehold valuation tribunal, to the tribunal before which the proceedings are taking place or, if the application is made after the proceedings are concluded, to any leasehold valuation tribunal; .
(c)in the case of proceedings before the [F31Upper Tribunal], to the tribunal; .
(d)in the case of arbitration proceedings, to the arbitral tribunal or, if the application is made after the proceedings are concluded, to a county court. .
(3)The court or tribunal to which the application is made may make such order on the application as it considers just and equitable in the circumstances.] .
Annotations:
Annotations are used to give authority for changes and other effects on the legislation you are viewing and to convey editorial information. They appear at the foot of the relevant provision or under the associated heading. Annotations are categorised by annotation type, such as F-notes for textual amendments and I-notes for commencement information (a full list can be found in the Editorial Practice Guide). Each annotation is identified by a sequential reference number. For F-notes, M-notes and X-notes, the number also appears in bold superscript at the relevant location in the text. All annotations contain links to the affecting legislation.

Amendments (Textual)

F27S. 20C substituted (1.9.1997 subject to saving in Sch. para. 1 of S.I. 1997/1851 and otherwise 11.8.1998 subject to art. 3 of S.I. 1998/1768) by 1996 c. 52, s. 83(4); S.I. 1997/1851, art. 2; S.I. 1998/1768, art. 2

F28Words in s. 20C(1) inserted (6.4.2006 for E. and 16.6.2006 for W.) by Housing Act 2004 (c. 34), ss. 265(1), 270, Sch. 15 para. 32(1)(2); S.I. 2006/1060, art. 2(d) (with Sch.); S.I. 2006/1535, art. 2(b) (with art. 3, Sch.)

F29Words in s. 20C(1) substituted (1.6.2009) by The Transfer of Tribunal Functions (Lands Tribunal and Miscellaneous Amendments) Order 2009 (S.I. 2009/1307), art. 5(1)(2), Sch. 1 para. 177 (with Sch. 5)

F30S. 20C(2)(aa) inserted (6.4.2006 for E. and 16.6.2006 for W.) by Housing Act 2004 (c. 34), ss. 265(1), 270, Sch. 15 para. 32(1)(3); S.I. 2006/1060, art. 2(d) (with Sch.); S.I. 2006/1535, art. 2(b) (with art. 3, Sch.)

F31Words in s. 20C(2)(c) substituted (1.6.2009) by The Transfer of Tribunal Functions (Lands Tribunal and Miscellaneous Amendments) Order 2009 (S.I. 2009/1307), art. 5(1)(2), Sch. 1 para. 177 (with Sch. 5)

Modifications etc. (not altering text)

C31Ss. 18-30 modified (30.9.2003 for E. and 30.3.2004 for W.) by 2002 c. 15, ss. 102, 181(1), Sch. 7 para. 4; S.I. 2003/1986, art. 2(a); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(a)

Ss. 18-30B extended (30.9.2003 and 28.2.2005 for E. for certain purposes and otherwise prosp. and 30.3.2004 and 31.5.2005 for W. for certain purposes and otherwise prosp.) by 2002 c. 15, ss. 172, 181(1); S.I. 2003/1986, art. 2(c)(ii) (subject to Sch. 2); S.I. 2004/669, art. 2(c)(ii) (subject to Sch. 2); S.I. 2004/3056, art. 3(h) (subject to art. 4 (as amended by S.I. 2005/193, art. 2)); S.I. 2005/1353, art. 2(h) (subject to art. 3)

An example of this was say you were a leaseholder in a Council high-rise block of flats that were 13 stores high and the council changed all the windows, doors, concrete repairs, renew the damp coursing, renew rainwater goods and the roof etc.

The works cost the council say £1.5M including the labour and the materials and your lease states that you are have to pay 6% which means you will have a bill for "£90,000" drop in your letterbox.
 
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The property was converted in 1997, it all depends who the leaseholder is doesn't it? Could the freehold lie with a trust?

And yes, this is to get me on the so-called property ladder.
 
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Talk to a solicitor.

Property law is apparently quite elaborate. It's also as dull as anything I've come across in life so far.

Lawyers are expensive, but probably a sensible use of funds when buying a house. A grand on a lawyer feels like throwing money away, but you shouldn't get burned in the sale. And if you do, the lawyer is probably liable for your loss.

@Nitefly - iirc you're a solicitor in Bristol at trainee / newly qualified sort of level. If so, in the spirit of networking, would you like to meet someone who's halfway through their training contract in the city centre?
 
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