How can employers get away with this?

[J-FRO]

1 hour lunch break

What's one of them and where can I get one?

 

[dowie]

Actually yes. Because of the overtime I work harder, and because I'm known of my good, hard work, more people ask for my input in projects, resulting in even more overtime.

So you actually do work over your 35 hours then? But you're paid hourly(?) so in order to motivate you they have to spell it out for you simply with overtime payments rather than performance related rises/bonuses.

 

[M1k3H]

If you work only your contracted hours in that industry then you're unlikely to progress... it would likely have a fairly negative effect on your career, your perception etc... You're free to do it though - no one is forcing you to compete with your co-workers and by opting, from the outset, to do the bare minimum you're essentially placing yourself right at the bottom of the pile.



With these sorts of roles you'll likely find there is a never ending list of things to do - some things *have* to be finished by a deadline, others aren't so urgent... its unlikely that you're going to have nothing to do.

I'm not saying I do, I work loads of time, I've never NOT worked overtime for 6 months straight in my current job, I'm just saying that if someone was expecting me to deliver more hours than being stated in my contract, for the same money, I would not do it with as much dedication, therefore not delivering my 100%.

 

[M1k3H]

So you actually do work over your 35 hours then? But you're paid hourly(?) so in order to motivate you they have to spell it out for you simply with overtime payments rather than performance related rises/bonuses.

My contract is for 37.5 as an example, I used 35 because OP started with that.

But yes, I am paid hourly, so any hour above the 37.5 is paid in hourly rate. anything less than an hour a day is not paid.

Anything above 42.5 hours a week, needs pre-approval in writing by a senior manager.

Anything above 48 requires the above plus the form which I signed opting out from my rights.

 

[D.P.]

Actually yes. Because of the overtime I work harder, and because I'm known of my good, hard work, more people ask for my input in projects, resulting in even more overtime.

What is this mystical overtime you speak of? salaried professionals and skilled workers don't have to get paid overtime, and in fact it would be rare to be paid overtime on most of these industries, e.g. software, finance, IB, engineering.

 

[Kenai]

I am paid hourly

Totally different kettle of fish to salaried work really, different mindset, different approach to work.

 

[dowie]

My contract is for 37.5 as an example, I used 35 because OP started with that.

But yes, I am paid hourly, so any hour above the 37.5 is paid in hourly rate. anything less than an hour a day is not paid.

Anything above 42.5 hours a week, needs pre-approval in writing by a senior manager.

Anything above 48 requires the above plus the form which I signed opting out from my rights.

OK but can you understand that people who aren't paid hourly but who have to perform well in order to secure a share of a bonus/pay rise pool might also be motivated to work above their contracted hours?

I mean you're seemingly dead set against working above your contracted hours yet you do so yourself in return for token overtime payments whereas the industry you're criticising rewards its workers with larger discretionary bonuses than just about any other sector.

 

[D.P.]

My contract is for 37.5 as an example, I used 35 because OP started with that.

But yes, I am paid hourly, so any hour above the 37.5 is paid in hourly rate. anything less than an hour a day is not paid.

Anything above 42.5 hours a week, needs pre-approval in writing by a senior manager.

Anything above 48 requires the above plus the form which I signed opting out from my rights.

You are paid hourly so that is entirely irrelevant to salaried employees!

 

[UncleRuckus]

I'm just wondering from the salaried workers here, when is enough, enough?

What I mean by this is that in the video games industry for example some work so many hours that if you work it out as hourly pay it comes below minimum wage.

All that work and burn out for minimum wage seems like a bad pill to swallow.

 

[Kenai]

I'm just wondering from the salaried workers here, when is enough, enough?

What I mean by this is that in the video games industry for example some work so many hours that if you work it out as hourly pay it comes below minimum wage.

All that work and burn out for minimum wage seems like a bad pill to swallow.

Down to the individual to decide frankly, some people will be prepared to work for less, some will enjoy work and want to do more, some will go beyond their peers to stand out for promotion, etc. etc. everyone is different.

If it's too much then you talk to management and discuss why your workload is taking you 90 hours a week, is it too much work, are you under-performing etc. etc.

Any reasonable company will take it on board and if they don't, then it's your cue to leave.

What will normally happen to a salaried worker is you work a typical day for 90% of the time and put in the extra at crunch times when necessary.

 

[Sudden]

Depends on the industry. I know a few people at Magic Circle law firms who, fairly often, come in at 9 am or so and leave at 2 am.

But then they get paid accordingly, even if their contract only says '40 hours'.

 

[dowie]

I'm just wondering from the salaried workers here, when is enough, enough?

What I mean by this is that in the video games industry for example some work so many hours that if you work it out as hourly pay it comes below minimum wage.

All that work and burn out for minimum wage seems like a bad pill to swallow.

depends on the utility you gain from it - if you're not feeling it then switch jobs tbh... in financial services that utility directly translates to money... in the games industry some people presumably really believe in the project/game they're working on and want to see it become a sucess etc... In the armed forces people can easily end up working for the equivalent of less than minimum wage but there is a lot more than mere financial rewards that you can gain from serving.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Nearly everyone bar a few people (myself, managers, and the warehouse staff) work 9-5, so 35 hours a week, despite our contracts being for 37.5 hours. I'm not going to rock the boat by telling the managers, but nor am I going to compromise my context by doing what they do. It does annoy me that it appears to be acceptable, though.

 

[Biohazard]

What a bunch of pussies.

If they ask me to do something I don't want to do I'll **** on their desk and smile.

 

[D.P.]

I'm just wondering from the salaried workers here, when is enough, enough?

What I mean by this is that in the video games industry for example some work so many hours that if you work it out as hourly pay it comes below minimum wage.

All that work and burn out for minimum wage seems like a bad pill to swallow.

Totally up to you. If you like your work and don't mind the time etc. You balance your hours with the salary and the bonuses and promotion probabilities.

Also a lot of the time it is a gamble, the games industry is a bit like start-ups - you do long hours with the expectation that if the product is a success you get a large cash reward or shares in the company when it goes public. E.g., if you were one of the early Google programmers then you worked 60-70 hour week weeks at a relatively low hourly rate but got stock options. Once Google went public you were a multi-millionaire.


In other industries when it comes to annual bonus those that put on the hours and exceeded basic performance get rewarded with substantial bonuses. I am somewhere in the middle, getting stock options and if the company does well a large bonus. I know of some people with a similar background to me where the annual bonus is up to 50% of their salary

 

[D.P.]

It also affect references. Do you want a highly praising reference saying you are a "highly dedicated and enthusiastic worker that constantly exceeds work expectations in an exceptional timely manner" or one that says "I confirm Joe blogs worked here from X to Y"

The latter reference barring you from your next job if the hiring personnel were to read it!

 

[WillyNelson]

Most contracts will state a 'standard working hours' which will be set for the company and or market you're working in. This is just how the contract is written but your actual working time will often be more and this will be reflected in your salary. Most contracts will also contain a clause just after the standard working hours about how it may be necessary to work additional hours outside your standard. Your standard hours are you minimal contractual hours, is you do this and only this don't expect your career to progress very well.

Those guys in the corner offices who drive M5s and Astons to work. Do you think they have contracts that state 60 hours a week?

 

[Haggisman]

Thing is that is easy to arrange, just get paid less per an hour and end up at the same salary for the same 40+hrs!

Not really the same at all now is it.

I doubt he's paid hourly so if he said anything I suspect they'd just resolve it by amending his contract to say 40 instead of 35 at the absolute most.

They've employed him to do the job for £XXk per year, whether that's 35h p/w or 40h p/w is neither here nor there really as they'd just change the contracted hours and tell him to get on his bike if he didn't want to agree to it.

It's not like we're talking a completely unreasonable figure like a contract saying 35h and then turning up to be told you work 7 til 7 for 6 days a week.

No, he'll be on a salary which is payed monthly regardless of hours worked. His employer will expect him to work to a certain standard. If that certain standard requires 40 hours to be worked then that's what he'll have to do seeing as it's a new job he has bascially no right for about a year (regardless of what his 'probation' might be) so can be sacked at any minute. Most '9-5' jobs are between 35-40 hours anyway which obviously means a lot of places are 9-5.30 or 9-6, not 9-5.

I'm fortunate enough to only work 35 hours a week but I'm well aware these working hours are in the minority. I'm also aware that if I have deadlines to meet then I'll have to stay late/come in early on my own free will, I rarely have to do this though.

So lets say he's a very efficient worker, and gets all the work done to the required standard. Do you reckon the company would be happy for him to take every Thursday & Friday off because he can finish the work in ~24 hours? After all, he's paid to do a job, not a certain number of hours... No? Didn't think so. Like I said, nothing wrong with a bit of flexibility here and the, but it works both ways.

 

[dowie]

So lets say he's a very efficient worker, and gets all the work done to the required standard. Do you reckon the company would be happy for him to take every Thursday & Friday off because he can finish the work in ~24 hours? After all, he's paid to do a job, not a certain number of hours... No? Didn't think so. Like I said, nothing wrong with a bit of flexibility here and the, but it works both ways.

I'm not sure you understand it but there isn't necessarily such a thing as getting all the work done - more likely there is always more to be done. He's contracted for 35 hours a week and has a set number of holidays so its unlikely you can take extra days off just because you feel you've done lots of work.... You're not generally forced to work more than your contracted hours - plenty of people feel obliged to in order to perform as well as or better than their peers... generally you want to make a good impression when you initially join a new firm... once you've established yourself and proven you can deliver then they're more likely to tolerate the occasions that you turn up at 11am on a Friday with a bad hangover and wearing the same clothes as the day before...

 

[Haggisman]

I'm not sure you understand it but there isn't necessarily such a thing as getting all the work done - more likely there is always more to be done. He's contracted for 35 hours a week and has a set number of holidays so its unlikely you can take extra days off just because you feel you've done lots of work.... You're not generally forced to work more than your contracted hours - plenty of people feel obliged to in order to perform as well as or better than their peers... generally you want to make a good impression when you initially join a new firm... once you've established yourself and proven you can deliver then they're more likely to tolerate the occasions that you turn up at 11am on a Friday with a bad hangover and wearing the same clothes as the day before...

Oh I do understand the principle behind it, I just don't understand the mindset of having so little self respect for yourself that you're perfectly happy to dedicate the majority of your waking life to someone in exchange for less money than your time is really worth.