Facebooks 50 Genders

[dirtychinchilla]

It's statements like these which makes me question how well educated you are. You've such a narrow-minded view of the world and your position in it, that it baffles me how you can claim to care about anything.

Allow me to let you in on a little secret: Even the far-right 'care' about the world, the people and the creatures in it. Have you ever read up on Fascisms position on the environment? I imagine not. You'd be surprised to discover they are very green. You might also be shocked to discover they believe in things like welfare, workers rights and so forth.

The problem is that you're so deeply entrenched in your maternal view of the world, that you cannot fathom the possibility that the people on the paternal side of the argument also care. They just disagree on what is the best course of action.

That's great, and I genuinely appreciate you educating me on that. I had no idea the far right was green, although I guess it's in their interest, and everyone else's, to be so.

What you seemed to have missed is the part where people are allowed to be different, allowed to be the people that they want to be, and to do what they want to do. These are values that the far right certainly do not hold dear, and values which I, personally, deem to be incredibly important.

 

[Westyfield2]

The engineer in me has always thought that gendered toilets are incredibly inefficient.

I've seen girls jump into the guys to avoid the queue, and both guys & girls use the disabled to avoid the queue, but I've never seen a guy go into the girls toilets...

 

[Darkwave]

You're both making the assumption I am speaking of toilets, when I am not. Co-ed bathrooms are nothing new. I am talking of changing rooms for sports activities.

You might be surprised to know trans people often feel extremely anxious and exposed changing in their preferred room, they're not predators stalking around and looking for some female flesh to ogle. If a transgender woman looks female I am not sure what you expect here, do you want her to change in the men's room? Surely it's better she change in the room where people are less likely to notice anything different, because she surely is not going to be waving her parts around.

 

[Frightful Boar]

What you seemed to have missed is the part where people are allowed to be different, allowed to be the people that they want to be, and to do what they want to do. These are values that the far right certainly do not hold dear, and values which I, personally, deem to be incredibly important.

I don't think this is necessarily true.

The fundamental difference between left and right wing politics, that being (re)distribution of wealth and how it should be done, mirrors exactly what you describe.

People with right wing views don't necessarily want to infringe on the activities of others, they just don't want those activities to interfere with their own lives.

Eg, I don't care if someone wants a sex change, as long as they pay for it themselves. People with left wing views believe everyone should share in the bill.

The environment is a global issue. We can all agree on that. The gender "re-assignment" of a stranger, not so much.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I guess you're right to some extent. I see the redistribution of wealth as very important, and I think that coincides with the formation of equality. Furthermore, I want everyone to be treated as equal, no matter who or what they are.

The views that have come across in this thread, and in many others, from the various far left people on this forum, seem to me to be that basically we should allow people to do as they want, as long as they fit within existing criteria, to remain traditional etc.

What I also see is that right wingers see very much resistant to change and progress which might enhance the lives of others around them.

Overall, I think right wingers are very insular and selfish (this is an observation in particular of my father, towards people he doesn't know).

 

[bitslice]

You might be surprised to know trans people often feel extremely anxious and exposed changing in their preferred room, they're not predators stalking around and looking for some female flesh to ogle.

Same for gay girls, nearly all find the experience excruciatingly embarrassing.

 

[elmarko]

I don't think this is necessarily true.

The fundamental difference between left and right wing politics, that being (re)distribution of wealth and how it should be done, mirrors exactly what you describe.

People with right wing views don't necessarily want to infringe on the activities of others, they just don't want those activities to interfere with their own lives.

Eg, I don't care if someone wants a sex change, as long as they pay for it themselves. People with left wing views believe everyone should share in the bill.

The environment is a global issue. We can all agree on that. The gender "re-assignment" of a stranger, not so much.

It depends on if you are traditionally right with authoritarian elements or a right-wing libertarian.

The same mistake is made by those of the right who assume that everybody who supports left wing economics is pro-state (when you get left-wing libertarianism - with a greater focus on syndicalisms, communes & worker ownership (who dislike a powerful state just as much).

The right wing you are talking about is on economic issues, many people in the UK are right wing politically for one reason or another, but hold no ill regard to homosexuals (as an example) - but you also have a section of the right wing who hold both economically & socially right wing views (traditionalists) who would most certain infringe on the rights of others given the chance (by denying them equal treatment).

 

[toasteh]

You're both making the assumption I am speaking of toilets, when I am not. Co-ed bathrooms are nothing new. I am talking of changing rooms for sports activities.

I wasn't making any assumption, just providing something else to discuss.

 

[Tunney]

You're both making the assumption I am speaking of toilets, when I am not. Co-ed bathrooms are nothing new. I am talking of changing rooms for sports activities.

I still don't see it as a big deal. Seeing a naked body isn't going to mentally damage anyone.

This hang-up with nudity seems to be a very anglo-saxon thing. Scandinavians are perfectly comfortable with towel-free unisex saunas.

 

[Frightful Boar]

I guess you're right to some extent. I see the redistribution of wealth as very important, and I think that coincides with the formation of equality. Furthermore, I want everyone to be treated as equal, no matter who or what they are.

What I also see is that right wingers see very much resistant to change and progress which might enhance the lives of others around them.

Overall, I think right wingers are very insular and selfish (this is an observation in particular of my father, towards people he doesn't know).

Selfishness may be the crux of the matter. I'm certainly selfish from the point of view that I feel that redistribution of wealth to be an anathema and I believe enforcing equality has Orwellian overtones that I don't find palatable. I don't believe it's my responsibility to enhance the lives of those perfectly capable of enhancing their own lives.

Overall I think that left wingers are shortsighted, idealistic and are trying to excuse their own inadequacies by excusing those of others (please note that I believe that everyone has their own set of inadequacies).

It depends on if you are traditionally right with authoritarian elements or a right-wing libertarian.

The same mistake is made by those of the right who assume that everybody who supports left wing economics is pro-state (when you get left-wing libertarianism - with a greater focus on syndicalisms, communes & worker ownership (who dislike a powerful state just as much).

The right wing you are talking about is on economic issues, many people in the UK are right wing politically for one reason or another, but hold no ill regard to homosexuals (as an example) - but you also have a section of the right wing who hold both economically & socially right wing views (traditionalists) who would most certain infringe on the rights of others given the chance (by denying them equal treatment).

Debates about politics are unfortunately tainted by such probably necessary labels. I'm definitely guilty of assuming the opinions of the left in the same way that people frequently make assumptions about my beliefs.

 

[Theophany]

I've seen girls jump into the guys to avoid the queue, and both guys & girls use the disabled to avoid the queue, but I've never seen a guy go into the girls toilets...

Queues are always too long.

 

[Darkwave]

This argument about the redistribution of wealth is quite silly when you look at the actual figures. In 2011/12 around 30 Million people paid Nation Insurance contributions, in 2013 these contributions totalled £107 Billion. According to an article on the Telegraph just under 150 NHS patients received sex change operations in 2010, costing around £10,000 each, or almost £1.5 Million in total.

Going by these figures the average person paying N.I. contributes a total of £0.05 (5 pence) to each potentially life-saving operation. If you are outraged enough by this money being spent on a stranger I'm curious how many of you are willing to forgo your state pension, which accounts for up to £94 Billion of welfare spending.

It's also worth noting that the NHS does not perform these operations willy nilly, no pun intended. Patients have to wait, often many years, whilst living full-time as their preferred gender and often subject to unusual and dehumanising standards laid out by their GIC (gender identity clinic). One story I will never forget is that of a patient having their waiting list status threatened for "not wearing feminine clothing" by a female doctor wearing a trouser-suit, the patient in question wearing women's jeans at the time. For this reason and many others a lot of transgender people seek private treatment instead if it's within their means.

 

[Darkwave]

Double post sorry.

 

[D.P.]

I would much ratheray to improve the quality of life of so done suffering a gender identity disorder or such like than pay for someone who abuses drugs (inc alcohol), leads an unhealthy lifestyle such as over eating, lack of exercise. The latter people are at least partially responsible for the outcome, while people requireing sex changes are incredibly unlucky in the same way a baby born with a defective heart is unlucky.