Its not an easy question, I suppose its a bit like wars everywhere, where they consider the casualties as a direct result of the action of the enemy, and where Hamas is concerned they certainly have a case. For bystanders though such as myself, who supports Israels right to exist and protect itself, I think that remit was left behind a while ago. The boys on the beach was what I think should have been a wake up call for the israeli people.
Voice your opposition to the Israeli actions for the past 65+ years
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Its not an easy question, I suppose its a bit like wars everywhere, where they consider the casualties as a direct result of the action of the enemy, and where Hamas is concerned they certainly have a case. For bystanders though such as myself, who supports Israels right to exist and protect itself, I think that remit was left behind a while ago. The boys on the beach was what I think should have been a wake up call for the israeli people.
And yet violence begets more violence. The international community has a responsibility to protect the Palestinians even if they are seen as irrational.
Would it surprise you if Hamas eventually deployed a WMD against Israel?
I am sure they would feel justified but it can be prevented.
The method of delivery isn't an issue the explosives certainly arrived on the UK mainland and went bang, the Israelis chose to go their route to defeat their enemy and it was an illegal route of war crimes and collective punishment, blame Nuttyyahoo and likud not jews though.
The nature is punish the civilians and make them turn on hamas clearly.
obviously it's a stupid tactic that just breeds hatred for Israel and the jews which is now why european countries are suffering from a spate of attacks on jewish shops etc.
GG Israel slowly turning the world against jews, don't go crying when your terrorist state is hated the world over and jews aren't welcome anywhere but in israel and hollywood
Yeh it's just a lot of collateral damage to destroy something that will seemingly be resupplied not long after.
Or wasn't there in the first place. Highly mobile weapons are hugely difficult to target in air strikes.
I didn't realise this, but only 28 Israelis have been killed by rocket fire from Gaza since 2001. Israel has killed more innocent civilians than that in a single day during this conflict, and has killed about 500 civilians so far in the recent weeks.
Disproportionate is a understatement!
Disproportionate is a understatement!
Force??? Are you serious? Who (other than the doomed population of Gaza) do you seriously suggest is going to try to use force against the Israelis?
Quite aside from which, the "international community" has had plenty of justification for and opportunity to impose sanctions on Israel. They have consistently done the exact opposite, America spends some $3 billion "foreign aid" per year on poor, impoverished Israel, supplies it with the latest military technology and provides satellite data.
Israel can always rely on the West for unwavering support.
Would more Israelis being killed make you feel more sympathetic? What is the approximate ratio of Palestinian deaths to Israeli deaths that you would be more comfortable with? Maybe if the Israelis switched off Iron Dome for you to increase their death toll from the rockets fired at them, it would show their humane side.
only because america always votes no
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=37572#.U8_DFLEm-sM
Resolutions vetoed by america the whole list not just ones related to israel
http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/geoff/UNresolutions.htm
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And that is why the Jews (well, the sane ones anyway) want a Jewish state and is the exact reason for the NEED for Israel.
Many people say "this is not about Jews it is about Israelis. This is not about Israelis, this is about Zionists. This is not about Zionists, is is actually about right wing zealots etc etc ad nauseum."
Arknor himself may have even said something along those lines in the last 22 pages as a way of saying he is impartial. Or not? However, when push comes to shove, he has actually just said the world is slowly turning against the Jews (and probably coming in line with his thoughts on the whole Jew problem) and that is the crux.
The Jews need a place to call their own where they can be free of persecution from anti-semites and bigots. So when Arknor, Zoomee, Craterloads, Old Coals and Oulton and their ilk "come a calling", there is a place that Jews can escape to.
Out of interest, were there widespread European protests, marchs, burning down of mosques, Halal Subway, KFC and McDonalds, burning of Halal grocery stores, chants of death to Muslims everywhere post 9/11 or 7/7 or any other similar events? Perhaps post Syria, Post Turkey, post Libya?
As said above Israel intercept the majority of rockets with missile defense system.
People have this strange notion that's it's a simple game of tit for tat where you can only respond with a force proportionate to the damage received.
It's not, it's an armed conflict and Israel have military objectives they need to achieve to secure the safety of it's citizens. Avoiding civilian casualties is of concern but secondary to this.
Soldato
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My problem with the conflict (and I'm sure I'm going to get massively flamed):
From where I'm sitting, the Israelis and killing civilians indiscriminately. "But Hamas are using civilians as human shields" I hear you cry, as if that is justification for what's happening. For a military with supposedly surgical precision, they don't seem to be very precise.
From where I'm sitting, the Israelis and killing civilians indiscriminately. "But Hamas are using civilians as human shields" I hear you cry, as if that is justification for what's happening. For a military with supposedly surgical precision, they don't seem to be very precise.
how about they give the land back , get rid of apartheid and then get on with the rest of the world instead of acting like a modern north korea
I agree they should relinquish the land in the West Bank, and they have a system of apartheid now. The problem is that when they didn't have apartheid there would be lots of terrible terrorist attacks against Israelis. I think there was a time in the '60s when it was possible for the two sides to live together in peace, however that time has now passed. I don't defend Israel here, I'd like to see some form of censure issued by the international community, including sanctions maybe. Sadly I fear that the ethnic cleansing will eventually be successful.
genuinely curious what happens if they give the land back go back to the old borders etc.
but the Palestinians/Hamas aren't happy with that and continue attacks.
what exactly happens then in your world?
I take it you mean pack their bags and move somewhere else because that's the only thing that will placate the loonies in Gaza and surrounds.
If Israel goes back to the correct borders, and allows Palestine to exist as a free state then Hamas probably wouldn't get elected again because people wouldn't be angry anymore.
People fight back when they are angry and oppressed. That is what causes the violence.
Perhaps the loonies in the 50s/60s who kicked the Arabs of their land and created huge refugee populations in adjoining countries could pack their bags, yes. At least back to recognised international frontiers anyway.
Israel never learned to coexist, it was and still is a young country, perhaps one day it may grow up.