BMW E60 520d M Sport. Manual or Auto?

Django x2 said:
Wow, you know very little about the E60, or, it seems, modern diesels in general. 12k a year, of city driving, will never see a DPF regen.
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My wife's car will do a DPF regen quite happily around town. Not sure why you think they can't do a regen with city driving ?

Town/city driving isn't the problem it is short trips not allowing the car to get up to temperature for the regen, 2 miles down a motorway from a cold start won't allow a regen as the coolant and oil temperature needs to be over 75-80c on most cars.
 
Django x2 said:
Wow, you know very little about the E60, or, it seems, modern diesels in general. 12k a year, of city driving, will never see a DPF regen. By very nature, a low mileage car is not one that spends a lot of time on the motorways and certainly not one that matches the fickle criteria for a DPF regen.

And goodness knows what school of maths you went to, but the fuel difference saving between a diesel and petrol of 12000 miles at 38mpg petrol and 50mpg diesel is only about £300 a year

According to fairly recent data, taking full TCO of a diesel vs petrol, you need to be averaging mid 20k to 30k miles a year for a diesel to make sense.
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Erm.... I would argue you don't seem to know very much. Or appear to be able to read.

12k is average miles. Probably something like a 20 mile each way commute, 5 times a week, 48 weeks a year. That's easily within the realms of driving out of the city (my old man does exactly this commute, and he never really does town driving for example). I did exclude cars that are purely city based, however Dangerous Dave has just pointed out that this may not even have been necessary. 12k pa isn't a low mileage car at all, 6k maybe, but even then, that could be a 10 mile each way blast up the motorway to work. You don't know...

As for the math, I have a spreadsheet to work that out for me. I based it on a 30 mpg petrol, 50 mpg diesels, as that's about the average figure I have personally ACTUALLY averaged in my car ownership, from fairly reasonable petrols (1.8T / 2.0T's a little more, 330i's a little less, maybe average for a 320i though, but these are, presumably, the sort of cars you would compare against 2.0 diesels). And at the prices I saw today at my local petrol station, so 1.27 for petrol, and 1.327 for diesel. So for 12000 miles, the petrol costs £2309.41 and diesel £1447.84. So £861.57 difference per year. But even assuming your generous 38 mpg, £375.38 is still a reasonable saving.

Still doubt you need 20-30k for a diesel to be worthwhile. Anything over average miles and you'll be up. Or drive a slow, laboured petrol.
 
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Fair point. If that was the point I was getting at.

But there is no petrol E60 that'll average the 38 mpg that Django suggests. Indeed the 523i only officially averages 29.3 mpg, so you really would be even better off with the diesel. Indeed, you would have to be looking at the newer F series 5's to stand a chance of getting near 38 mpg average from a petrol. Which is outwith the specs of the OP.

The only way to get the mythical 38 mpg, out of a petrol, as suggested possible by Django above, whose post I was replying to, would be to purchase something small, slow and laboured. Otherwise, for the E6x series at least, my math lines up.

I'm happy to be proved wrong in my posts though. But to simply accuse them of being wrong, without actually thinking about what I have said, and not backing your opinion up at all is just lazy IMO. If you are going to attempt to shoot me down, at least take the time to aim properly first.
 
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Dangerous Dave said:
My wife's car will do a DPF regen quite happily around town. Not sure why you think they can't do a regen with city driving ?

Town/city driving isn't the problem it is short trips not allowing the car to get up to temperature for the regen, 2 miles down a motorway from a cold start won't allow a regen as the coolant and oil temperature needs to be over 75-80c on most cars.
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BMW diesel regen criteria (at least on the E60) is constant speed over 58mph, 50% of available glow plugs in operation, and a temperature in excess of 78C (IIRC). Does your wife do that constant speed around town?
 
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Django x2 said:
BMW diesel regen criteria (at least on the E60) is constant speed over 58mph, 50% of available glow plugs in operation, and a temperature in excess of 78C (IIRC). Does your wife do that constant speed around town?
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I don't think it has to be a constant speed although that may be the trigger to start. My E61 used to regen at a lot slower speeds then that.
 
Similarly, I haven't, although reading through the forums, people often talk about the engine dropping down a gear, or increased revs, etc, etc. I've never noticed any of that, yet I know the car regens perfectly fine. In fact, my DPF is positively shiny :D
 
xs2man said:
As for the math, I have a spreadsheet to work that out for me. I based it on a 30 mpg petrol, 50 mpg diesels, as that's about the average figure I have personally ACTUALLY averaged in my car ownership, from fairly reasonable petrols (1.8T / 2.0T's a little more, 330i's a little less, maybe average for a 320i though, but these are, presumably, the sort of cars you would compare against 2.0 diesels). And at the prices I saw today at my local petrol station, so 1.27 for petrol, and 1.327 for diesel. So for 12000 miles, the diesel costs £2309.41 and petrol £1447.84. So £861.57 difference per year. But even assuming your generous 38 mpg, £375.38 is still a reasonable saving.
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You've got the diesel and petrol £'s the wrong way around ;)

Also, I doubt you'll average 50mpg in a diesel car around town, from my experience of driving a diesel A4 .
 
SDK^ said:
You've got the diesel and petrol £'s the wrong way around ;)

Also, I doubt you'll average 50mpg in a diesel car around town, from my experience of driving a diesel A4 .
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Ha ha. Got you. So I do, lol. I'll change that, to keep it accurate, but the difference is still the same.

I didn't think we were talking about town. Similarly you'll unlikely average 30 mpg in any decent petrol around town. I'm talking about average figures for all driving over the year. Town / Motorway / A-Road etc... My old man easily averages 50+ mpg in his E91 320d, I would imagine the E60 520d would be similar over similar driving. My Passat averages nearly 48 mpg, but it's driven quite fast by comparison to an average drive as it's my second, fast motorway car.

Diesel A4's are poo on fuel economy though. I have had a couple recent models and the best one barely managed 40 mpg. BMW diesels, on the other hand, fare significantly better. I get better economy on my 530d that I did in any of my A4 2.0 TDI's.
 
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The M57 is really noticeable when it regens, it drives differently holding gears longer, also the exhaust will smell which you can smell inside the car. From the outside whe
En you get out you will feel the heat from under the car and the exhaust crackle from heat.

The N57 is impossible to tell from driving it you can smell it from inside though and the exhaust has the same characteristics from the outside.

My F11 regens far less than the E61 did I have only noticed it twice since I've had it.
 
I've honestly never noticed a regen, but then I guess it does with with me on the motorway where the gear is the same (I always use M6 on the motorway), never smelt anything (perhaps a trait of the touring more than the saloon). I do get the exhaust crackle though.
 
Quick (novice) question re the automatics. How do you change mode/gear in an auto (talking 520d here). Do you have to have your foot on the brake and squeeze the little button on the side (labelled 'release' I think, or something similar) and then push to drive, neutral etc?

Also, where's the park mode on the E60s? Don't notice a label on the knob for park, just neutral, drive and semi-auto gears.

Thanks
 
Yep, if you are talking about the LCI shifter, which I think you are. The Park function is on the top, labelled "P".

You press the release button on the side (although it doesn't have any writing on it) and slide in to the first gear you need (Reverse, Drive, etc) from there, you don't need to use the release to get into the Drive, only back to Reverse.

Knock the whole lever over to the left for the DS and M gears
 
I wouldn't have ANY car in manual 2.0 tdi form ever again.

My passat pd130 had 5 speed manual, as standard it was slow, and when remapped it was quite quick but gears 1 and 2 where useless, it just ripped through them too quickly, but it did not have enough grunt down low in the powerband that you could drive around town in third, so you have to use even 1st gear around down. Constantly changing gear is a pain.

Why don't you just get a 08 a3 sportback 170 tdi s-tronic?

Obviously not as good as any BMW made but your budget will buy you a low mileage one and 58 plate was right before the third facelift.
 
Plus it's two classes down from the equivalent 5 series.

That said an A6 2.7/3.0 tdi may be worth considering - just not sure what your money buys you really
 
Django x2 said:
BMW diesel regen criteria (at least on the E60) is constant speed over 58mph, 50% of available glow plugs in operation, and a temperature in excess of 78C (IIRC). Does your wife do that constant speed around town?
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The E60 535d doesn't need the speed to be constant over 58 mph. It will regen at much lower speeds - it will also stay in regen mode when you e.g. come to a stop at a set of lights, are stationary, and will stay in regen mode as you accelerate again.
 
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