Arizona nine-year old in Uzi gun lesson accident

The Americans will never get it will they.. Why on earth would you put an Uzi in the hands of a nine year old is just beyond me. It's just insane and above all logic and common sense.

A gun is a gun.. single rate or fully auto.. it doesn't make it right.. just what does this achieve?
 
Admiral Huddy said:
The Americans will never get it will they.. Why on earth would you put an Uzi in the hands of a nine year old is just beyond me. It's just insane and above all logic and common sense.
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I've given up trying to understand, I have a number of american friends - they're all pretty decent people but their outlook is just different..

To me it seems totally obvious, that if you have lots of guns, readily available to everybody - taking into account how people behave day to day, it's going to end in serious problems..

But they don't see it that way, they think that having guns makes them free, and any attempt to take them away is some sort of attack on their freedom - it's just bizarre, and I've given up trying to understand it.
 
[AMERICA] This is an horrific and tragic event, our prayers are with all involved.

[PEOPLE] Surely gun control needs addressing after so many senseless and downright stupid deaths?

[AMERICA] err....well.....HEY LOOK, TERRORISTS UNDER THE BED!! 'MURICA **** YEAH!
 
V-Spec said:
I've given up trying to understand, I have a number of american friends - they're all pretty decent people but their outlook is just different..

To me it seems totally obvious, that if you have lots of guns, readily available to everybody - taking into account how people behave day to day, it's going to end in serious problems..

But they don't see it that way, they think that having guns makes them free, and any attempt to take them away is some sort of attack on their freedom - it's just bizarre, and I've given up trying to understand it.
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Its just ingrained in the culture, on another forum I use to visit everytime one of these shooting incidents occurred in the US the same type of thread would erupt and as always the americans would defend their gun laws to nth degree, one was even a moderator there is the most level headed, sensible, actually just plain nicest person you hope to meet online, and she was just adamant that everyone should have a gun or the right to own one and was completely and intractably in favour in the nicest way possible.

Its hopeless.
 
Blackjack Davy said:
Its just ingrained in the culture, on another forum I use to visit everytime one of these shooting incidents occurred in the US the same type of thread would erupt and as always the americans would defend their gun laws to nth degree, one was even a moderator there is the most level headed, sensible, actually just plain nicest person you hope to meet online, and she was just adamant that everyone should have a gun or the right to own one and was completely and intractably in favour in the nicest way possible.

Its hopeless.
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A few years ago I did a weapons course at Scottsdale gun club in Arizona, fired lots of full-auto assault rifles, pistols and a M249 - spent 2 days there, I'll admit it was ****** brilliant, but throughout the whole thing - I had this constant nagging feeling in my head that was saying "this is just totally and utterly perverse"

I remember going to the rental counter, collecting several assault rifles, one of which was an M16 (you're supervised with full-autos) but everything else I was just left alone with, walking around in public with flight-cases full of guns, it was... surreal, cool, but also a total culture shock for me - even as someone who used to do competitive archery, and field-target air-rifle shooting, as cool as it was - the whole thing was totally alien to me.


TLDR; The cultures are just different, part of me doesn't care - if they want guns, then have guns, but it seems ridiculous for them to suffer these gun related tragedies on a weekly basis - then appear on the television saying; "omg why is this happening, blame mental health, blame COD etc"
 
Dis86 said:
Just read the story before and I actually facepalmed.

America really is full of dumb people.
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Sad, but true. At least I moved away from a big gathering of them, NYS over the Midwest any day. Better people & weather.

Am I think only one completely dumbfounded at the fact this even happened? Now I know the US has a rather different relationship with guns, but who in their right mind gives a 9 year old child an Uzi?
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The above quote says it best "America really is full of dumb people".
 
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V-Spec said:
But in all this, I have no idea how you improve the situation in the US, whilst I think it's obvious that guns are a major cause of the problem I don't think it's actually possible to remove them from general circulation.
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Anyone in the US that tries to remove them from general circulation wont be around for long, its just one of those things that people have and dont want to give up, its in the Constitution, they dont want to hear it...
 
Actually, It occurs to me that we have been getting the significance of this story all wrong.

Because it involves "Guns and 'Merica". That is where the debate has ended up raging.

But it isnt really about "Guns and 'Merica" is it. It is about the consequences that can arise when a novice is engaged in a hazardous activity that proves beyond both their technical and physical capabilities.

The fact that this story involved a machine gun is only a relatively minor aspect of it.

Let me re-run the story to show you what I mean..

Let us say that rather than being taught to shoot, the 9 year old was being taught to ride a bicycle!

Her mentor has decided (Rightly or wrongly) that she has got to the stage where she can go out on the public highway. Unfortunately this proves beyond her competence. She loses control and in doing so collides with her mentor pitching him into the path of a lorry whereupon he is killed instantly!!

Now, this would mostly be reported as a tragic freak accident! Nobody would be calling for cycling to be banned (For everybody and not just children)

Only a handful (And certainly no politicians) would be suggesting that allowing a 9 year old to ride a bike on the highway was highly stupid and irresponsible. (Even if it was!!)

Trouble is the mere mention of Guns (especially in the context of 'Merica) and the political bandwagon shifts into top gear and all objectivity goes for a Burton!
 
Might as well legalise drugs over there, seeing as guns are pretty much the ultimate killing machine, at least with drugs people have time to be saved, mostly.
 
The problem wasn't giving the kid an Uzi. It was giving the kid an Uzi with a full clip and flipping it to full auto. Most adults have a hard time keeping fully automatic weapons in check, let alone a kid who was probably on their first visit and didn't even know basic shooting stance.
 
Orionaut said:
Let me re-run the story to show you what I mean..

Let us say that rather than being taught to shoot, the 9 year old was being taught to ride a bicycle!

Her mentor has decided (Rightly or wrongly) that she has got to the stage where she can go out on the public highway. Unfortunately this proves beyond her competence. She loses control and in doing so collides with her mentor pitching him into the path of a lorry whereupon he is killed instantly!!

Now, this would mostly be reported as a tragic freak accident! Nobody would be calling for cycling to be banned (For everybody and not just children)

Only a handful (And certainly no politicians) would be suggesting that allowing a 9 year old to ride a bike on the highway was highly stupid and irresponsible. (Even if it was!!)
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But it just seems silly to compare, learning to fire an UZI aged 9, with learning to ride a bike...

Children need to learn to get about, whether it's walking/running/cycling because it's part of living, you can't exist properly in the world unless you're taught to get around, regardless of the risks involved, whereas to me - it seems pretty unnecessary to teach a 9 year old to fire an UZI, it's a high risk dangerous activity - and there's no benefit in them doing it, aside from a bit of fun.
 
Evangelion said:
Incorrect.



Correct.
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Please provide some references because my reading of USA history of that period contains plenty of the first two reasons.

It might be only the third reason talked about much now but the 2nd amendment to the USA constitution wasn't written recently.
 
Sliver said:
So not banned then if certain individuals can obtain them. Quit the hyperbole. Most school shootings and other massacres in the US are carried out by nutters with automatic weapons. Obviously being a nutter doesn't stop you getting the guns.
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no they're not?
they're done with legally bought semi auto weapons and pistols.

The kind of people who shoot up their school aren't the type of people who tend to know the local black market assault rifle dealers.

Heck even Brevik used legal guns because he tried to buy illegal automatic ones and the criminals wouldn't sell to him.

No criminal wants to be the one who sold the gun used in a massacre as they WILL be hunted down by the police as the press would push it till they were.
 
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