Brexit thread - what happens next

Glaucus · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:32

Mauller said:
becasue of how extreme and directed he made the budget. look around on various papers and they call it his 'punishment budget' that was seen to be passing through draconian amounts of tax increases and service cuts. Which would hit the people who are more likely to vote leave the most.

oh dear.
if economy crashes then thoughs things have to happen.

again it cant be both, either its a reasonable outcome or its not. you've already acknowledged its a reasonable outcome.

and poor people are always suffer most when services and welfare are cut. how do you get that to punish the rich when they don't use such services.

we now have less money to pay for things and that looks like it will remain for years, which means cuts to the least wel off in society is going to happen.

could per chance be your biased clouding your thoughts could it. rather than looking at it logically.

McBain · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:32

Gilly said:
The deal he got was a good deal, meaning he was doing what he said he would

My word, that's one of the funniest things I think i've ever read on here.

Is that you Dave?

Roar87 · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:34

Gilly said:
So we ignore the fact that the leave campaign had people in government within it... the fact that they couldn't deliver on any of it and had no plans to do so didn't stop them saying they would. Why is it relevant to say that they can't deliver against their statements? That doesn't mean they didn't say them.

They never said this is what WILL happen, they said here's what we COULD do! I'm done now.

Gilly · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:34

Roar87 said:
Hahahaha

You've missed the point again. He thought he got a good deal, and that he'd delivered what he said he would, so why would he not campaign to remain on that basis?

Glaucus · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:35

Roar87 said:
They never said this is what WILL happen, they said here's what we COULD do! I'm done now.

but there never was 350milion, so either way it was an outright lie.

Mauller · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:36

Gilly said:
The deal he got was a good deal, meaning he was doing what he said he would

The deal he got was not worth the paper it was written on. And was very watered down to the point where over half of the things he wanted went unchanged or had a tiny clause added that made little difference.

Roar87 · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:36

Glaucus said:
but there never was 350milion, so either way it was an outright lie.

I totally agree, it was a gross figure, I've no idea why they said it. For me it was never an economic argument anyway because Leave could never win on that.

lafemmefatale · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:38

Roar87 said:
I'm more out raged that £9m was spent sending biased leaflets out. I'm more outraged that the Prime Minister said he could campaign for Leave if he didn't get a good deal from the EU, which he didn't, then he campaigned for Remain anyway. I'm more outraged at the BBC's consistent bias throughout the entire campaign. I'm more outraged that despite the electorate being in favour of leaving, the MPs don't reflect the views of their constituents.

Are you the real Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells?

Gilly · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:40

Mauller said:
The deal he got was not worth the paper it was written on.

There's no point arguing with me over it, it was his opinion that shaped his choice not yours or mine.

Roar87 said:
They never said this is what WILL happen, they said here's what we COULD do! I'm done now.

Oh, I see, that way the lack of a plan, a strategy, or indeed any understanding at all is ok then if all they were doing was theorising on things that would never happen against a frame of reference that was an outright lie.

That's just taking accountability for their lies away.

Arazi · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:40

Protests going on in London.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36692990

Mauller · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:41

Gilly said:
There's no point arguing with me over it, it was his opinion that shaped his choice not yours or mine.

He was saving face, making it appear he got a good deal to appease eurosceptics.

McBain · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:41

Gilly said:
There's no point arguing with me over it, it was his opinion that shaped his choice not yours or mine.

Except that's not what you said.

No point in arguing is right, he didn't get a good deal.

lafemmefatale · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:42

Gilly, I appreciate you and I haven't exactly seen eye to eye on a few things recently. However, I'm enjoying your responses in this thread (and the other relevant ones) very much.

Gilly · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:45

Mauller said:
He was saving face, making it appear he got a good deal to appease eurosceptics.

Eurosceptics wouldn't have ever accepted it as a good deal (as evidenced here).

McBain said:
Except that's not what you said.

In context, yes it is. We were talking about him moving to leave if he didn't get a good deal. He felt he got a good deal, so stayed with remain.

dowie · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:45

Arazi said:
Protests going on in London.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36692990

Protester Mark Thomas said the referendum campaign - which resulted in the UK voting by 52% to Leave - had not been fought "on a level playing field".

with the govt backing one option along with public funds being spent on it, civil servants ordered not to plan for the alternative...

yup in spite of it being one sided leave won

Gilly · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:47

dowie said:
with the govt backing one option along with public funds being spent on it, civil servants ordered not to plan for the alternative...

yup in spite of it being one sided leave won

Public funds were spent on both campaigns.

Interested to know more about the order to civil servants. I've not seen that.

McBain · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:47

Gilly said:
Eurosceptics wouldn't have ever accepted it as a good deal (as evidenced here).

In context, yes it is.

You didn't say 'He thought he got a good deal', you said 'He got a good deal' - that seems like it's your opinion, as evidenced by the replies.

Out of interest then, if your post was in Dave's opinion, do you think he got a good deal?

Gilly · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:48

McBain said:
It really isn't, as evidenced by the replies.

Out of interest then, if your post was in Dave's opinion, do you think he got a good deal?

I think it's better than the sceptics allow for and not as good as was needed.

Caged · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:49

We had one of the best deals among the EU member states already. Obviously in my opinion etc. etc.

McBain · 2 Jul 2016 at 14:50

Gilly said:
I think it's better than the sceptics allow for and not as good as was needed.

Fair enough.