"Future proofing" and the RX 480

OC18 · 20 Aug 2016 at 23:09

Seanspeed said:
Keep in mind console games typically only target 30fps and use medium/high PC-equivalent settings(gradually going to low/medium as the generation rolls on). A 1070 can certainly do 4k/30fps with medium/high settings. But we're talking AMD hardware, so I think the specs would indicate Microsoft are probably looking at using a baby Vega GPU for Scorpio.

I think Scorpio is pretty much right on point to do 4k console gaming next year. It wont come with substantially increased graphics or framerates, but it should be just sufficient to crank the resolution.

good point.
We'll have to wait and see what it brings to the table, and also the price.

Seanspeed · 20 Aug 2016 at 23:12

OC18 said:
Didn't know that, that is interesting.

I presumed the PS4 neo to only have a minor performance boost, haven't seen the specs yet.

Should be about double the GPU power, a 30% overclock on the existing CPU, and modestly upgraded GDDR5 modules(25% more bandwidth).

This is what we've been told was the plan for Neo. Sony might have changed things after Scorpio's announcement, though. Probably not, a lot of work would have already gone into Neo's research and development, but it's possible.

OC18 said:
good point.
We'll have to wait and see what it brings to the table, and also the price.

Would not at all be surprised if Scorpio came with a $599 pricetag or something.

LMT50 · 20 Aug 2016 at 23:43

Seanspeed said:
In two years, you probably wont get much more than £100 selling a used 480. So you'd still be looking at another £150 or so out of pocket to upgrade to a new £250 GPU.

This ultimately means that instead of £250 every 4 years, you'd be paying £300, but you'd also have a more up-to-date GPU doing it like that. Of course you could also sell the 480 in 4 years to help a bit, but we're talking more like £50-75 for it at most by that point. So let's just say £200 vs £300 every 4 years.

In terms of SLI/Crossfire, I honestly dont ever recommend it. Half the time, games dont even support it and when they do, half the time it comes with issues.

Got ya.

As far as crossfire and sli: isn't it meant to be getting better for crossfire? I thought as time went on with the new API's support was going to be better?

Thanks

LMT50 · 20 Aug 2016 at 23:45

Seanspeed said:
Should be about double the GPU power, a 30% overclock on the existing CPU, and modestly upgraded GDDR5 modules(25% more bandwidth).

This is what we've been told was the plan for Neo. Sony might have changed things after Scorpio's announcement, though. Probably not, a lot of work would have already gone into Neo's research and development, but it's possible.

Would not at all be surprised if Scorpio came with a $599 pricetag or something.

Interesting.
I'm really interested to see how they perform and weather people will actually buy them.

LMT50 · 20 Aug 2016 at 23:52

I'm seeing reports of Vega architecture set to release in October, is that likely?

Is it better to hold off on the 480 and wait in that case? I know some of you are doing that.
Seems pretty soon if it is the case...

oldestgregg · 21 Aug 2016 at 00:40

Final8y said:
No they do not share Vram and neither do they stack.
No i did not have to compromise settings but if i took the versions with less Vram i would have had too.

To many times in the past i have had to compromise settings and 99% of the time it was because of the Vram the 5970s is the only time where i didn't.

4k is not becoming the norm any time soon.
And in regards to the 480, its not about maxing out settings, if maxing out settings is what mattered to the OP then 480 would not be in the topic in the first place.

Having to drop setting because of GPU grunt over time is the norm and to be expected but having to drop the Settings because of Vram is fail.

You are arguing that future proofing is fine but you are buying the highest of high end,dual GPU's to do so. Of course that will last you a while but 99% of people just cant afford to do so. Buying a single card now,mid range at that,to future proof just wont work.

You really think 4k wont be "the norm" anytime soon? Even the consoles will run games in that resolution by next year! Obviousy there are people running 720p monitors now but add the consoles upgrade in hardware to cheaper panels being released all the time and it will much more commonplace

LMT50 · 21 Aug 2016 at 00:55

oldestgregg said:
You are arguing that future proofing is fine but you are buying the highest of high end,dual GPU's to do so. Of course that will last you a while but 99% of people just cant afford to do so. Buying a single card now,mid range at that,to future proof just wont work.

You really think 4k wont be "the norm" anytime soon? Even the consoles will run games in that resolution by next year! Obviousy there are people running 720p monitors now but add the consoles upgrade in hardware to cheaper panels being released all the time and it will much more commonplace

In terms of a card "lasting", are we talking of how long they can run at a playable resolution and frame rate, or weather they can run period?

For example, I've seen people playing doom on the GTX 470, and it's playable.
Hell, the current consoles have doom, and the Xbox one's PC GPU equivalent would be something like the 7850!

To be honest, it's tempting to get something like the GTX 950. It's very cheap, it works, it's better than current consoles which are said to be supported for a good couple of years with new games, even with the new ones releasing.

That way it's hardly a big deal to upgrade later when we have more information as to how things are panning out next year and beyond (more focus on 4K, more info on Vulkan/DX12 implementation, new card architectures etc)
Just a thought. I wouldn't expect anyone but someone coming from a console like me to be happy with that solution, but for me, as someone who's never even had a 1080p system and doesn't know what 1440p and 4K looks like, it might be an idea.

Final8y · 21 Aug 2016 at 04:50

oldestgregg said:
You are arguing that future proofing is fine but you are buying the highest of high end,dual GPU's to do so. Of course that will last you a while but 99% of people just cant afford to do so. Buying a single card now,mid range at that,to future proof just wont work.

You really think 4k wont be "the norm" anytime soon? Even the consoles will run games in that resolution by next year! Obviousy there are people running 720p monitors now but add the consoles upgrade in hardware to cheaper panels being released all the time and it will much more commonplace

Future proofing is a relative term, just because my example was highest end does not change the term or the facts.

There are high end cards that are more future proof than others.
There are mid range cards that are more future proof than others.

Future proofing is not exclusive to buying the highest end card at the time that will out last all other cards at the time of purchase, its about with the amount of money at which a person is willing to spend which card in that price bracket will last the longer and many have already posted examples like.

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
If I had bought an R9 380 Instead of a GTX960 I would have had better performance over time though. AMD midrange and lower high-end cards of the last few years seemed to have decent longevity.

The 380 was more future proof than the 960.

And the OP is not buying a 4K screen .

nashathedog · 21 Aug 2016 at 08:48

oldestgregg said:
You really think 4k wont be "the norm" anytime soon? Even the consoles will run games in that resolution by next year!

Hardly, They're talking 6 tflops which is basically a 390x, A 390x is not capable of 4k gaming so if they did run there games at 4k we'd be getting the same framerate issue we see now with sub 30 fps levels and even lower dips which often happens nowadays, Realistically I'm hoping the so-called 4k consoles manage a consistent above 60 fps 1080p. If they manage to do that across the board I'd be happy but 4k gaming is not going to happen except with easy to run games. Ideally they'll allow some control over the resolution and not force games to run dynamically at close to 4k with poor frame rates but that's probably wishful thinking.

Brazo · 21 Aug 2016 at 09:21

Not all console games now run at 1080p. Star Wars battlefront (not especially demanding) runs at 720p on Xbox and is up scaled to 1080. I suspect we'll see a similar thing with 4K being an up scaled resolution. Low-med settings and 30fps.

LMT50 · 21 Aug 2016 at 11:11

nashathedog said:
Hardly, They're talking 6 tflops which is basically a 390x, A 390x is not capable of 4k gaming so if they did run there games at 4k we'd be getting the same framerate issue we see now with sub 30 fps levels and even lower dips which often happens nowadays, Realistically I'm hoping the so-called 4k consoles manage a consistent above 60 fps 1080p. If they manage to do that across the board I'd be happy but 4k gaming is not going to happen except with easy to run games. Ideally they'll allow some control over the resolution and not force games to run dynamically at close to 4k with poor frame rates but that's probably wishful thinking.

Unfortunetly I think they will end up having bad frame rates just to try and push for 4K.
They've promised it now, so they're going to have to deliver, even if it's lackluster.

They did it with the current consoles - pushed games on the PS4 just so they could get 1080p and have one over on their competition, but they ran poorly.

LMT50 · 21 Aug 2016 at 11:53

The MSI 8GB RX 470 is only £183.99 at new egg. Maybe that's An option for me.

http://www.newegg.com/global/uk/Pro...814137025&cm_re=Rx_470-_-14-137-025-_-Product

There's the 460 also that can be had for around £110.

Obviously neither would be future proof, but then they're not as expensive. Especially the 460

Brazo · 21 Aug 2016 at 12:04

8gb on a 470 is like having go faster stripes on a car, save even more and go for the equally performing 4gb option.

LMT50 · 21 Aug 2016 at 12:08

Brazo said:
8gb on a 470 is like having go faster stripes on a car, save even more and go for the equally performing 4gb option.

Why is that? How come the extra V Ram isn't a benifit?

Thanks

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 21 Aug 2016 at 12:14

LMT50 said:
Unfortunetly I think they will end up having bad frame rates just to try and push for 4K.
They've promised it now, so they're going to have to deliver, even if it's lackluster.

They did it with the current consoles - pushed games on the PS4 just so they could get 1080p and have one over on their competition, but they ran poorly.

They will use upscaling I suspect.

Dave2150 · 21 Aug 2016 at 12:29

LMT50 said:
Why is that? How come the extra V Ram isn't a benifit?

Thanks

Because it's not an NVIDIA card. If the 1060 only had a 8GB version, then all those complaining about the AMD card would suddenly change their tune and would be happy with the 8GB.

Brazo · 21 Aug 2016 at 12:35

LMT50 said:
Why is that? How come the extra V Ram isn't a benifit?

Thanks

Well it won't hinder it but it's a low performance card and 4gn is more than enough for what it can cope with.

Brazo · 21 Aug 2016 at 12:36

Dave2150 said:
Because it's not an NVIDIA card. If the 1060 only had a 8GB version, then all those complaining about the AMD card would suddenly change their tune and would be happy with the 8GB.

I see no issue with 3GB

tommybhoy · 21 Aug 2016 at 12:41

3Gb is rubbish for 1080p, 3Gb 1060 is a cash grab card.

If there was only 4Gb on 480's-'it wont be enough for 1080p'.

We'll gain more insight when DX12 Deus X MD releases whether 3Gb's holds back 1080p IQ on the most relevant forward pointing 'next gen' engine is released.

@Op, Deus X MD's showing 7870/660 as minimum spec, thats an indication where your performance will be in 4 years.

LMT50 · 21 Aug 2016 at 12:57

tommybhoy said:
3Gb is rubbish for 1080p, 3Gb 1060 is a cash grab card.

If there was only 4Gb on 480's-'it wont be enough for 1080p'.

We'll gain more insight when DX12 Deus X MD releases whether 3Gb's holds back 1080p IQ on the most relevant forward pointing 'next gen' engine is released.

@Op, Deus X MD's showing 7870/660 as minimum spec, thats an indication where your performance will be in 4 years.

For which card? The 480?

Thanks