Car Sales / Showrooms etc

Yep it's a fair comment, but i can't see any sales guy in the country willing to accept a "what if they come back in 10 years time to buy one themselves".

Most are so commission-driven that they probably don't actually care about whether someone might come back in another 5 years time - they might not even work there anymore.

Yep you're absolutely right, which is why a pure commission structure often isn't the best model. But as with most things these days, it's only today's results that matter.

The challenge you have is that the retailers aren't owned by the OEMs (unless you're Tesla) so the goals are often a little different.
 
Car Salespeople should really be renamed Finance Salespeople based on my recent experience as they were far more interested and knowledgeable about their finance packages than they were about the car. I ended up walking out of a BMW Dealership as I was fed up with being talked down to by someone with zero knowledge of financial situation who couldn't stop recommending stupid deals.

Thats fair comment. I had the same with alloy wheel and gap insurance, you can only assume that the commission on the add on products was what they really made on. Given how overpriced they were I don't doubt they make a packet off of them.
 
just putting my nose in...

VR will hit car sales rooms etc soon (if not already?)
Had an interview a few years back with a large car company who wanted to look into making full vr suites inside showrooms. So you can customise your car on the spot, test out the sizing of the interior etc. With the right setup this could include a pre built station with a dash/wheel/seat/gear stick etc.
 
Of course you need sales people, as long as they are effective and help me buy the car I want for if not they are not sales people. Be it facilitation of test drives, guidance on options and shipping or sorting out the commercials, having a person to own that is to me important. Most people have not got a clue what good selling looks like, certainly those who have never done it but also many of those who 'think' they do. The difference between good and bad is massive and as I have said many times, if sales people added no value they would not be employed as companies don't simply tick box an employee list. As you go up the ladder the most highly paid people in most companies are the best sales people outside the C suite, sometimes including the C suite. Sadly, the motor trade is a relatively poor payer which is why the very best tends not to spend their life in the industry, or if they do soon take ownership of the dealership or open their own. Car dealers struggle to hire talent because of this, it's a real problem and acknowledged by friends of mine who are DP's.

I've had cause to visit a few car show rooms lately and sadly the majority of those visits have been a poor experience. In most situations I will want to drive the car I am looking to buy, my preference being to borrow one for at least an hour so I can drive it at my leisure on a mixture of different roads without distraction and sit in it and fiddle with stuff. I always make my intentions clear when I visit, so I am not wasting anyones time and to help them qualify me appropriately and in turn, serve me properly. We are currently looking at getting another car for load lugging and towing duties, hence the show room experiences and I am also looking at my options for this year in terms of upgrading my R8 to a 570S.

As you might expect the high end of the trade tends to be a much more effective experience, though not always. It would perhaps surprise you but I find it easy to secure a loan of a supercar for a few hours than I do for a family run about. People at the high end tend to have different expectancies and this is why most dealers understand this and act accordingly. This usually means your given space, provided with multiple opportunities to try before you buy and dealt with in the main professionally.

However the low end, some exceptions aside, tends to be a real mixed bag. My experience at SEAT Stoke was one such example this weekend. I was looking at the Anteca, nice car. I had popped in last week, with little time and was offered a car to try. So I popped back with my wife, the sales person was not their so I spoke to another guy who told me 'no we can't let you have a car to try without one of us with you, we don't do that'. At which point I said thanks and walked out to his open mouthed expression.

VW Tamworth only yesterday, my second experience of this dealership. Busy showroom, good sign, I asked reception if I might have some time with a sales person to discuss stuff. "All busy, would you like to wait". Of course I said, no problem, could you tell me how long they might be. "No you'll have to wait, we are busy, would you like someone to call you?". Yes, sure, but can you ask them to do that today tomorrow please as last time it took 4 days and by then I had bought a Polo GTi, hate you to miss out again....

To which I got...

"Why you telling me, that's not my problem, I just take the messages!"

Done, no business from me. As I walked out a salesman I knew, who I had bought from over the phone (the blue GTi we had) came rushing over to apologise.

I touch the surface, but this is the sort of thing that annoys me and to the OP's question. That is not selling, that is in fact sales avoidance.

BMW Tamworth.....exceptional. Private viewing of the new 5 series, coffee, chat, as much time as I need. THAT is how you do it.
 
Yeah, some dealerships/salespeople need a lesson in manners let alone good sales practice. I almost always make an appointment if I want to look at something - even if it's just to chat about what some of the options are rather than take out car on a test drive.

Last time around, I made an appointment at Audi Cheshire Oaks; I'd previously spoken on the phone and via email with the same salesperson about 4 times. I turn up on the day, not only was he not in that day, there were no records of an appointment so I had to sit around for 45 mins waiting for someone to come to see me. To be fair the chap I spoke to eventually was very good, turns out he lived near me and offered to drop off the car I was looking at to have for the weekend. He was also very forthcoming about being able to beat other brokers like Drivethedeal/CarWow (in the past I've had dealers deny their existance!).


An hour later at BMW had the opposite, chap came out threw me the keys said bring it back 'in about an hour'. But when I got back and wanted to ask some questions he wasn't to be seen :p
 
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I've had both experiences from dealers,

I had a Volvo main deal a few years ago refuse me a test drive unless i gave him a deposit on the car first, walked straight out and never came back (was driving a S60 t5 at the time and was looking at the new model), Audi and BMW dealers were happy to fight over my custom that time.

This time i've had a similar experience to Housey but with Audi in that they were too busy to talk to you right now maybe we will call you back in 2-3 days. I did the Carwow search online and the same Audi dealer gave me the red carpet treatment, only problem there was while i loved the car, they were only interested in getting me back on the PCP treadmill.

Telling a sales man you have £30k you want to put down on a car used to have them weak at the knees these days they are telling you to keep it and sign up for this plan or that, "its like buying a phone" the guy says nobody pays for their iPhone outright, to which i dropped mine on the table and said that one was and then the conversation kinda died off. I got the impression he'd rather not have a sale if it wasn't on PCP.
 
Over Christmas I was down with my father and spent time going around the showrooms with my father in Exeter. We were very clear we were simply window shopping and were not looking for any help, just allow us to peruse at our leisure. Porsche, Ferrari, Jaguar, BMW all got a visit. Worst was BMW who were rudely dismissive, followed by Ferrari, Porsche (where my dad has his cars done) and Jaguar who were brilliant. The funny thing is the only person who did not see my car was BMW, if ever evidence were needed of the stupidity of some people. WHY need to see my car, assume every customer is your best customer until you have politely qualified them and even then show them courtesy.

If I say to someone I am not looking right now, but just gathering some thoughts then I do not expect any of their time other than to say I am over hear should you have any questions. However the BMW dealer, some small bloke is a REALLY bad fitting suit talked at me without the slightest bit of listening and then turned on his heels when he finally heard me say "just getting up to speed with the range today".
 
The difference between good and bad is massive and as I have said many times, if sales people added no value they would not be employed as companies don't simply tick box an employee list. As you go up the ladder the most highly paid people in most companies are the best sales people outside the C suite, sometimes including the C suite. Sadly, the motor trade is a relatively poor payer which is why the very best tends not to spend their life in the industry, or if they do soon take ownership of the dealership or open their own. Car dealers struggle to hire talent because of this, it's a real problem and acknowledged by friends of mine who are DP's.

This is something that I struggle to understand. SWMBO works in retail for a large cosmetics premium brand on not much above minimum wage with the same weekend working hours that car sales people have to deal with and the level of product knowledge and professionalism they are expected to show is very high and I can't help think that if someone like her manager was put in a car dealership with a bit of training she would run rings around what I've experienced at dealerships.
 
This is something that I struggle to understand. SWMBO works in retail for a large cosmetics premium brand on not much above minimum wage with the same weekend working hours that car sales people have to deal with and the level of product knowledge and professionalism they are expected to show is very high and I can't help think that if someone like her manager was put in a car dealership with a bit of training she would run rings around what I've experienced at dealerships.

Ego is a huge part of it.
 
This is something that I struggle to understand. SWMBO works in retail for a large cosmetics premium brand on not much above minimum wage with the same weekend working hours that car sales people have to deal with and the level of product knowledge and professionalism they are expected to show is very high and I can't help think that if someone like her manager was put in a car dealership with a bit of training she would run rings around what I've experienced at dealerships.

I've often wondered this, but is it unfair of me to expect that car salespeople (in dealerships) should know about all the models and all/most of the options. Maybe not what the prices are, and what is/isn't included at every trim level - but at least be aware of them, what they do and be able to demonstrate them? I've had more that one salesperson quote that they don't know what all the options do like I'm an alien for asking what that £1000 option is for...I've always though that's what their job is :p
 
just putting my nose in...

VR will hit car sales rooms etc soon (if not already?)
Had an interview a few years back with a large car company who wanted to look into making full vr suites inside showrooms. So you can customise your car on the spot, test out the sizing of the interior etc. With the right setup this could include a pre built station with a dash/wheel/seat/gear stick etc.

Jag Oxford had a very basic version of this just before they moved to their new dealership. Had a full dealership modeled on their new location in VR, with cars you could look at and it would display all the models above. You could walk around and look at the cars.

Made so much sense but obviously we're years away from the tech being mature enough to do it properly
 
I love spending time watching sales people as I appreciate the talent involved when doing it well, like any profession good people make it look easy because it's natural. Sadly most don't do it well and therefore this forms the basis of most peoples opinions of what selling is and the people who do it. Go see the thread in GD right now about useless jobs and see the amount of people calling out sales people. It's sometimes hard to argue if your only experience of selling is walking in to a car sales showroom, Currys, the revolving door at your office or a man who comes around your house to sell you things like Windows, finance or houses. Good long term selling careers are NOT built on BS or removing ethics and honesty, in fact the reverse is true.

Quick buck artists, to coin a phrase, may have some success, but not sustained success. Selling done well is simply facilitation, be it selling sweets or space ships. Move the pieces around the board, put people with other people or things, ensure they understand the value and an honest appreciation of the gaps and there you go. Easy isn't it? But if that is the case, then why are most people really poor at it? Probably because like any skill it take time and real skill, which sadly most people don't possess or won't commit to learning, especially where ego is concerned. So you see sales is mostly failure when you start out, people often don't have the stomach for it and it's therefore easy for them to say "I couldn't lie like the best people or I am too honest" when what they really mean is I couldn't be different to those around me and in doing see be the better, stand out, grow and develop and move to a place where I control my own life and earn more than most can only dream of.

Ego is a damaging thing.

https://www.bookdepository.com/Ego-...781781257012&gclid=CKC0seqi_tECFQcQ0wodYeMAUA

Worth a read for anyone interested, just finished the audiobook.
 
Scottland;30479702 said:
I've often wondered this, but is it unfair of me to expect that car salespeople (in dealerships) should know about all the models and all/most of the options. Maybe not what the prices are, and what is/isn't included at every trim level - but at least be aware of them, what they do and be able to demonstrate them? I've had more that one salesperson quote that they don't know what all the options do like I'm an alien for asking what that £1000 option is for...I've always though that's what their job is :p

The best sales people tend to be passionate about their subject matter and know it well but if they don't, to my point above, they will know a person who does and when to involve them seamlessly when they get out of their depth. Bluffing is mistake number 1. Never EVER assume ignorance in your customer is more true in our internet era than it ever was. If you can't be an expert, or at least know an expert/s, you aren't going to be very successful.
 
I don't expect them to know every spec, but the basics on engine/transmission/basic figures and what options are generally available would be welcome and not some scripted shopping list. Last time I was in a mainstream "sell by numbers" dealer I witnessed an old couple come in with a frame, looking to see if they could easily fit the frame in the boot without having to move much around. As they approached the rear of the car the salesperson instead of opening the back pointed to the rear camera on the car, then started rattling off the excellent DAB radio and upgraded speaker package, and how simple it was to connect their phone to the head unit. I don't even think the couple knew what a smartphone was looking at their expressions.

VR showrooms to me seem completely pointless. I want to be able to feel the comfort, the driving position, the materials used, how the space is arranged, how it all adjusts... all that before taking it for a test drive.

The biggest joke I find with most mainstream dealers is the lack of available data. It just took 3 phonecalls to get a badly worded PCP quote from a cold call offering to upgrade me. Have to get back to you on your trade in price, have to get back to you on your requested spec, have to get back to you if I can try and get a better deal from my manager... I managed to get all of that information to compare it within the first phonecall.
 
Basher;30478465 said:
It's a very shortsighted mindset, though. Perhaps they're not buyers today, but when they do want a new car for themselves, you can bet they won't go back to the dealership that treated them badly!

That, and surely they're representing the brand as a whole and not just their own dealership?
 
Howard;30479800 said:
That, and surely they're representing the brand as a whole and not just their own dealership?

They are, but remember that they're not employees of the brand. the OEM does their best to instil standards across the retailers, but it's not always that effective.
 
One bit of advice is work on the commercials before you request a test drive. Certainly let them know when you are looking to buy, what other cars you are considering as that way they at least have a view. I have actually pushed back on test drives many times, saying I am not sure I want to buy anything, let me get my head clear first and work some numbers then we can have a go. It tends to take their breath away a little and also ensure they look after you.

Sadly many dealers don't even let me get to that point of discussion as they have failed at the good morning bit.
 
Physical showrooms definitely needed for buying physical items that depend upon how well they fit you.
I'd never order one online without trying it, same as I'd never do with clothes.


Salespersons, not so much needed... or at least, many need a few lessons in salesmanship.
Most of them have "profiled" me before I've even walked in through the door, which I utterly hate anyway but they usually get it very wrong, as well.
If I want to buy something, I will. I tend to rebel against people directing me toward a sale, especially when I've not asked for their decision on what I want over and above my own opinion. I've even had people I know quite well suddenly slip into salesman mode when it came to looking at cars.

The best place I ever went, which did actually get a sale out of us, was run by guys who were more car enthusiasts than actual salesmen and who didn't really care if we bought or not. It was just a pleasure to talk 'shop' and natter about all the other things they had for sale, even though they knew we weren't going to buy them - They were just showing off cars they were proud of and rightly so.
More than that, they knew exactly when to leave us alone to talk, think about things, make phonecalls to insurances and the like. It was an absolute pleasure!
 
The physical thing is very very true especially if your are not Mr 95 percentile man.

As a 6'7" heavy built guy buying cars is very much limited by things i can fit in, When i was 17-18 it was which "small" car has the head & Leg room for me, now its the same but the other way Sports cars no, exec Coupes yes.

My wife was cracking up watching me try and get into a Jag F type, they are much smaller than they look on the interweb and 15 mins driving a TTS made me give up on the idea of ever driving something that small.

Car dealers do seem to have done a better job of embracing the online competition than say white goods stores have.
 
Steedie;30479728 said:
Jag Oxford had a very basic version of this just before they moved to their new dealership. Had a full dealership modeled on their new location in VR, with cars you could look at and it would display all the models above. You could walk around and look at the cars.

Made so much sense but obviously we're years away from the tech being mature enough to do it properly

It was Jag, lol. Seen the new Ipace VR experience?

I'd say the tech is all there, just need implementation. Nice to know they did it though!
 
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