Sticking it to the greedy publishers.

[vintage-x]

There are still production cost, and rather than look at SNES, look at the price of games in PS1 era, Pre-digital download, they are not that much different than it is now. I am sure people had the same moan and complaint when they went from cartridge to CD/DVDs.

Name me a AAA game in the past few years that has failed to turn a profit?

As I said above yes costs of making a game have gone up however there are more and more ways to make money from the game then there were before.

GTA 5 is a game that made 1billion dollors in what 3 days. it has sold 60+ million copies and been released 3 different times over 5 different systems and please don't tell me the cost of putting it onto the ps4 etc cost a massive unsustainable amount

 

[Kreeeee]

Name me a AAA game in the past few years that has failed to turn a profit?

As I said above yes costs of making a game have gone up however there are more and more ways to make money from the game then there were before.

GTA 5 is a game that made 1billion dollors in what 3 days. it has sold 60+ million copies and been released 3 different times over 5 different systems and please don't tell me the cost of putting it onto the ps4 etc cost a massive unsustainable amount

I'm not sure he grasps the effects of economies of scale.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I'm not sure he grasps the effects of economies of scale.

I’m not sure you guys grasp human greed.

The obligation isn’t to pass on the savings to the customer, the obligation is to increase the payout to shareholders.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Name me a AAA game in the past few years that has failed to turn a profit?

As I said above yes costs of making a game have gone up however there are more and more ways to make money from the game then there were before.

GTA 5 is a game that made 1billion dollors in what 3 days. it has sold 60+ million copies and been released 3 different times over 5 different systems and please don't tell me the cost of putting it onto the ps4 etc cost a massive unsustainable amount

Just look how many publisher folded this year, Lionhead who made Fable has gone, the people who made Deadspace has gone, GTA are pretty much the exception out of the few.

The one game that I am annoyed with paying any kind of money is FIFA, or any annual sports franchise, it seems it’s just a tiny engine or texture incremental upgrade and it’s a full price game, very little imagination and some years it gets worse!

 

[vintage-x]

I’m not sure you guys grasp human greed.

The obligation isn’t to pass on the savings to the customer, the obligation is to increase the payout to shareholders.

I understand how shareholders etc work. Still doesn't stop the fact that the things they are doing are anti consumer.

If everyone stopped buying the games then the shareholders arnt going to see anything

Just look how many publisher folded this year, Lionhead who made Fable has gone, the people who made Deadspace has gone, GTA are pretty much the exception out of the few.

The one game that I am annoyed with paying any kind of money is FIFA, or any annual sports franchise, it seems it’s just a tiny engine or texture incremental upgrade and it’s a full price game, very little imagination and some years it gets worse!

Lionhead and Visceral are both developers. Their games were published by Microsoft and EA respectively.

Still not answering my question. Name me a AAA game in the past few year that has failed to turn a profit?

 

[Raymond Lin]

I understand how shareholders etc work. Still doesn't stop the fact that the things they are doing are anti consumer.

If everyone stopped buying the games then the shareholders arnt going to see anything




Lionhead and Visceral are both developers. Their games were published by Microsoft and EA respectively.

Still not answering my question. Name me a AAA game in the past few year that has failed to turn a profit?

The Last Guardian, and I think Titanfall 2 was also a flop.

 

[vintage-x]

The Last Guardian, and I think Titanfall 2 was also a flop.

Source? as I'm looking around and all I can see is it sold 1.22 million copies estimated and I think that's just physical copies

 

[Raymond Lin]

Source? as I'm looking around and all I can see is it sold 1.22 million copies estimated and I think that's just physical copies

That game was in development for like a decade, 1.2 million sales is pittance for a game in development that long. It needed to sold much much more. Not to mention it had a 30% price cut not long after release, whereas GTA5 was full price for at least a few years, especially with it's re-release on PS4.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2017/02/02/the-last-guardian-has-had-a-permanent-price-cut



Take for example, Deadspace 2 cost $60million to make, sold 4 million copies and made a lost. So I struggle to think how the Last Guardian made money with 1.2million sales with a longer development period.

https://www.vg247.com/2017/10/18/dead-space-2-cost-60-million-to-make-4-million-sales-werent-enough/
https://www.pcgamesn.com/dead-space-2/dead-space-2-sales

This is partly why Visceral went bust last week.

Back to the Last Guardian….

I found this blog, take his math with a pinch of salt but the team that developed The Last Gurdian has 90people, 10 years.

So, Team Ico employs around 90 people (according to Google). I’ve decided to do my maths on the side of caution, so I’ve rounded that total up to 100 employees. Now, lets look at the average salary of a game designer. In the US this is $60k (£45k), so lets go with that figure. So 100 employees earning $60k each for 10 years works out at $60,000,000 (£45,000,000). There will also be office and equipment costs. I’ve worked this out at another $120,000,000 based on business allocation of cost ratios.

In total The Last Guardian cost around $180 million (£135 million) to produce.

So based on the game selling for $60 a copy. Sony needs to sell 3 million copies to break even.

https://milkbadger.wordpress.com/2016/07/15/can-the-last-guardian-make-a-profit/

Therefore, selling 1.2 million copies, with a price cut, not taking into PR and marketing. I struggle to see how it could have turned a profit.

 

[spoffle]

You're correct, and yet the cost to makes games has gone up ridiculously.

A NES game adjusted for inflation would cost about £130 now.

This doesn't really work though. The market for games has also grown substantially (by orders of magnitude.) So a simple adjustment for inflation doesn't work.

 

[panthro]

I've become extremely selective with my gaming. I dont buy anything new unless it's exceptional or a franchise I've been on board with i.e shenmue 3. I won't buy anything that charges me extra to complete the game. In fact the most I've ever done is buy the DLC for The Witcher 3, which was worth a lot more than the paltry £10 I paid for both. I expect I'm not down with the kids anymore as I'm mid 30's and tbh don't game online except for the odd Tekken 7 match of Doom. I also find the concept and popularity of Rocket League ridiculous.

I'm planning on building a new PC and building my Steam library. That should keep me busy for a while. Although by the time I go through that, gaming will be all microtransactions and pay to win and I'll be well and truly out of my depth!

 

[spoffle]

That game was in development for like a decade, 1.2 million sales is pittance for a game in development that long. It needed to sold much much more. Not to mention it had a 30% price cut not long after release, whereas GTA5 was full price for at least a few years, especially with it's re-release on PS4.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2017/02/02/the-last-guardian-has-had-a-permanent-price-cut



Take for example, Deadspace 2 cost $60million to make, sold 4 million copies and made a lost. So I struggle to think how the Last Guardian made money with 1.2million sales with a longer development period.

https://www.vg247.com/2017/10/18/dead-space-2-cost-60-million-to-make-4-million-sales-werent-enough/
https://www.pcgamesn.com/dead-space-2/dead-space-2-sales

This is partly why Visceral went bust last week.

Back to the Last Guardian….

I found this blog, take his math with a pinch of salt but the team that developed The Last Gurdian has 90people, 10 years.



https://milkbadger.wordpress.com/2016/07/15/can-the-last-guardian-make-a-profit/

Therefore, selling 1.2 million copies, with a price cut, not taking into PR and marketing. I struggle to see how it could have turned a profit.

Those figures will be well off. They won't be employing 90 people earning $60,000 a year. There's no way that $60,000 modal average (most commonly occurring) wage for a "games designer." There isn't really a job role of "games designer" either. People tend to have fairly specific roles, such as modeller, texture artist, environment design, and each role will have different wages associated with it.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I've become extremely selective with my gaming. I dont buy anything new unless it's exceptional or a franchise I've been on board with i.e shenmue 3. I won't buy anything that charges me extra to complete the game. In fact the most I've ever done is buy the DLC for The Witcher 3, which was worth a lot more than the paltry £10 I paid for both. I expect I'm not down with the kids anymore as I'm mid 30's and tbh don't game online except for the odd Tekken 7 match of Doom. I also find the concept and popularity of Rocket League ridiculous.

I'm planning on building a new PC and building my Steam library. That should keep me busy for a while. Although by the time I go through that, gaming will be all microtransactions and pay to win and I'll be well and truly out of my depth!

My Barometer is if a game could give me 1 hour of enjoyment per £1 then that's money worth spending. I mean I pay £10 for 2 hours in the cinema. Zelda BOTW for example I have spent over 100 hours so that is a bargain.

Tomb Raider was a quick 25 hours so £40 price tag was a little on the thin side.

Personally I have bought some DLC, like skins for Rocket League, Zelda DLC but never in game cash for GTA or things that I could get by simply playing. Plus i don't play online shooters where most of these loot boxes normally applies anyway.

 

[vintage-x]

That game was in development for like a decade, 1.2 million sales is pittance for a game in development that long. It needed to sold much much more. Not to mention it had a 30% price cut not long after release, whereas GTA5 was full price for at least a few years, especially with it's re-release on PS4.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2017/02/02/the-last-guardian-has-had-a-permanent-price-cut



Take for example, Deadspace 2 cost $60million to make, sold 4 million copies and made a lost. So I struggle to think how the Last Guardian made money with 1.2million sales with a longer development period.

https://www.vg247.com/2017/10/18/dead-space-2-cost-60-million-to-make-4-million-sales-werent-enough/
https://www.pcgamesn.com/dead-space-2/dead-space-2-sales

This is partly why Visceral went bust last week.

It says nothing about deadspace 2 not making a profit

Back to the Last Guardian….

I found this blog, take his math with a pinch of salt but the team that developed The Last Gurdian has 90people, 10 years.



https://milkbadger.wordpress.com/2016/07/15/can-the-last-guardian-make-a-profit/

Therefore, selling 1.2 million copies, with a price cut, not taking into PR and marketing. I struggle to see how it could have turned a profit.

Again I cannot find anything saying it didn't turn a profit just that it didn't meet sales expectations and unless we both see all the numbers from deep within sony then we will never truly know

 

[biron_w]

Just look how many publisher folded this year, Lionhead who made Fable has gone, the people who made Deadspace has gone, GTA are pretty much the exception out of the few.

Both of those are developers. And the publishers that own them are still going strong and still trying to milk us for every penny.
Visceral were shut down because they were working on a single player game and EA don't see those sort of games as being able to make enough money for them.

The Last Guardian, and I think Titanfall 2 was also a flop.

TitanFall 2 was released at totally the wrong time; the week between Battlefield and COD. A mistake an EA executive even admitted.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Again I cannot find anything saying it didn't turn a profit just that it didn't meet sales expectations and unless we both see all the numbers from deep within sony then we will never truly know

You don’t need to be a genius to work out that it didn’t. You can deny it all you want, it’s your prerogative.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Both of those are developers. And the publishers that own them are still going strong and still trying to milk us for every penny.
Visceral were shut down because they were working on a single player game and EA don't see those sort of games as being able to make enough money for them.



TitanFall 2 was released at totally the wrong time; the week between Battlefield and COD. A mistake an EA executive even admitted.

Still the fact remains that it flopped.

 

[ak22]

I won't be getting battlefront 2 at launch i will wait and see if the loot crate is as bad a people say it is.

 

[vintage-x]

Still the fact remains that it flopped.

doesn't mean it didn't or cant continue to make money

 

[VincentHanna]

I won't be getting battlefront 2 at launch i will wait and see if the loot crate is as bad a people say it is.

Hint - it's not.

 

[Raymond Lin]

doesn't mean it didn't or cant continue to make money

Continue is not a word one applies to something that the sales has stopped.