UK trains are an utter joke

The trains are just an absolute disgrace. No accountability, nearly always late, strikes (which in principal I support) and the Government doesn’t seem to give a crap.

For the country that invented the train, this is a national embarrassment. The Tories privatisation has just made the mess worse.

Yeah, yeah. Are you actually old enough to remember the days of BR? Because I can tell you it was a national joke. Sandwiches that curled up at the edges, trains that didn't tilt when they were supposed to, platform announcements that you needed an interpreter to translate for you, and trains never ran on time, if they turned up at all. And rolling stock so old it rattled and shook lol. I don't travel by train much but when I do I'm always amazed about how much things have improved from what I remember when I was a youngster.
 
Yeah, yeah. Are you actually old enough to remember the days of BR? Because I can tell you it was a national joke. Sandwiches that curled up at the edges, trains that didn't tilt when they were supposed to, platform announcements that you needed an interpreter to translate for you, and trains never ran on time, if they turned up at all. And rolling stock so old it rattled and shook lol. I don't travel by train much but when I do I'm always amazed about how much things have improved from what I remember when I was a youngster.

This is interesting because we have a good example of a publicly ran rail line in modern times ( east coast mainline ) which was hugely profitable, on time and the general satisfaction was been incredibly high, this was 2009-2015. Then returned to private hands and a few years later the line is a bankrupt mess and is going to cost us a fortune.

Whilst I do not know much about the 80s British Rail, we have many modern examples of transport being owned by the public sector working, on time and generating profit for a reasonable price. This is demonstrated time and time again in our neighbouring countries in Europe.

We should be heavily investing and pushing electric trains and trams, and none of them should be privately owned. I do not care about much of the privatisation of various industries that has gone on over the past decades, but the railways is one which really bugs me. I find it sad Labour wanting put everything in public ownership. They should really concentrate on transport...
 
Yeah, yeah. Are you actually old enough to remember the days of BR? Because I can tell you it was a national joke. Sandwiches that curled up at the edges, trains that didn't tilt when they were supposed to, platform announcements that you needed an interpreter to translate for you, and trains never ran on time, if they turned up at all. And rolling stock so old it rattled and shook lol. I don't travel by train much but when I do I'm always amazed about how much things have improved from what I remember when I was a youngster.

BR was the most efficient railway in Europe.
 
Switzerland, France, Germany, Sweden, and the Netherlands all have far better train networks that are more reliable and more efficient, and what is more costs significantly less than UK train journeys.

Guess what, in all these countries the train network is almost entirely publicly owned.It is estimated that UK rail operations are around 40% less efficient than the aforementioned countries. Britain desperately needs to nationalize its railway network, stop with the proven inefficient and disastrous privatization and join the rest of the developed countries
 
This is interesting because we have a good example of a publicly ran rail line in modern times ( east coast mainline ) which was hugely profitable, on time and the general satisfaction was been incredibly high, this was 2009-2015. Then returned to private hands and a few years later the line is a bankrupt mess and is going to cost us a fortune.

Isn't this partly because Stagecoach had to pay £3bn odd to the government for the franchise ? I'm think when the government ran it they didn't pay a franchise fee to themselves.
 
This is interesting because we have a good example of a publicly ran rail line in modern times ( east coast mainline ) which was hugely profitable, on time and the general satisfaction was been incredibly high, this was 2009-2015. Then returned to private hands and a few years later the line is a bankrupt mess and is going to cost us a fortune.

Whilst I do not know much about the 80s British Rail, we have many modern examples of transport being owned by the public sector working, on time and generating profit for a reasonable price. This is demonstrated time and time again in our neighbouring countries in Europe.

We should be heavily investing and pushing electric trains and trams, and none of them should be privately owned. I do not care about much of the privatisation of various industries that has gone on over the past decades, but the railways is one which really bugs me. I find it sad Labour wanting put everything in public ownership. They should really concentrate on transport...

Why does this lie keep persisting, considering the information is in the public domain?

Here's a previous post covering this off with references.

Brexit Discussion

Sample

You can see the data here showing that national express paid premiums in 2008/2009 and 2009/2010. In 2008/2009 they paid back £40m

The east coast mainline then moved into direct operation, and received a subsidy of £32.7m in the first year. This subsidy trend occurred every year at around the same rate apart from 2013/2014, when £2.0m was paid back. (The table gets messy at this point as the columns go out of alignment, very shoddy work, but can still be followed)

Stage coach then took over in 2015, and paid back £0.7m in premiums in their first part year

They then received a net subsidy of £27.9m the following year, before paying a premium of £20.8m in the 2016/2017 year.

So it is far from clear cut that direct operation was financially beneficial, based on the actual figures. There seems to be a growing trend in speakers corner to base arguments not around facts, but around perceptions or beliefs, but looking at what actually happened is important.
 
Nuclear is also very green.

Another time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_phase-out
A nuclear power phase-out is the discontinuation of usage of nuclear power for energy production. Often initiated because of concerns about nuclear power, phase-outs usually include shutting down nuclear power plants and looking towards fossil fuels and renewable energy.

Three nuclear accidents have influenced the discontinuation of nuclear power: the 1979 Three Mile Island partial nuclear meltdown in the United States, the 1986 Chernobyl disaster in the USSR, and the 2011 Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan.

Following the March 2011 Fukushima nuclear disaster, Germany has permanently shut down eight of its 17 reactors and pledged to close the rest by the end of 2022.[2] Italy voted overwhelmingly to keep their country non-nuclear.[3] Switzerland and Spain have banned the construction of new reactors.[4]Japan’s prime minister has called for a dramatic reduction in Japan’s reliance on nuclear power.[5] Taiwan’s president did the same. Shinzō Abe, the prime minister of Japan since December 2012, announced a plan to re-start some of the 54 Japanese nuclear power plants (NPPs) and to continue some NPP sites under construction.[6]

As of 2016, countries including Australia, Austria, Denmark, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Malta, New Zealand, Norway, Philippines, and Portugal have no nuclear power stations and remain opposed to nuclear power.[7][8] Belgium, Germany, Spain and Switzerlandare phasing-out nuclear power.[8][9][10][11] Globally, more nuclear power reactors have closed than opened in recent years but overall capacity has increased.[10]

Italy is the only country that has permanently closed all of its functioning nuclear plants. Lithuania and Kazakhstan have shut down their only nuclear plants, but plan to build new ones to replace them, while Armenia shut down its only nuclear plant but subsequently restarted it. Austria never used its first nuclear plant that was completely built. Due to financial, politic and technical reasons Cuba, Libya, North Korea and Poland never completed the construction of their first nuclear plants (although North Korea and Poland plan to). Azerbaijan, Georgia, Ghana, Ireland, Kuwait, Oman, Peru, Singapore, Venezuela have planned, but not constructed their first nuclear plants. Between 2005 and 2015 the global production of nuclear power declined by 0.7%.[12]

The picture is very correct.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elect...:U.S._2014_Electricity_Generation_By_Type.png

Here in my country, ~50% of the electricity is generated in Thermal power stations using coal.
~30% of the electricity is generated in Nuclear power plant.
And only ~7% comes from Renewable energy sources.
 
I take the train in Spain every year from Madrid to Alicante. If it's more than 5 minutes late you get a refund. It's always on time to-the-minute. Sometimes it arrives in Alicante as much as 5 minutes early (can't complain about that) and the trains are modern and comfortable.

In Canada, however, our train system is at least as bad as the UK. Our national rail company, VIA, is government owned and operated. My friend came to see me from Ottawa (Ottawa>Toronto is about 450Km so about 4 1/2 hours) and his train was 20 minutes late.

I take something called the GO train from my city of Pickering to down town Toronto sometimes, it is run by a private company called Metrolinx. These trains are older than I am (almost 40 years) and are not in terrific shape and they frequently arrive anywhere between 5 mins early and 5 mins late. To get on the train you swipe your card so you can show up 2 minutes before the train comes. I've shown up 4 minutes early only to find that the train was 5 minutes early and now I have to wait another 35 minutes. Terrible. To add insult to injury, VIA owns the lines that GO trains travel on and share the rails so any time a VIA train is nearby (which is often), the GO train has to go on a side rail, stop, and wait for the VIA train to go by, which is usually 4 minutes of delay. It's just a disaster.

Compare all this to Japan where I once read a story of a conductor being fired for arriving 12 seconds late ONCE...
 
i work on railway infrastructure renewal projects and the network in general is ******, basically fire fighting just to keep it working. there needs to be a top down renewal of the railway which is still running on the basis of a Victorian network but would cost billions, instead of a stupid project like HS2 which is a massive waste of money (20BN) they should invest in getting everything up to the same standard then implement a TMS solution nation wide, then they could think about making new lines. There are still some lines that havent been electrified...and as for 3rd rail on an open railway wtf!!
 
BR was the most efficient railway in Europe.
It certainly wasn't
Yeah, yeah. Are you actually old enough to remember the days of BR? Because I can tell you it was a national joke. Sandwiches that curled up at the edges, trains that didn't tilt when they were supposed to, platform announcements that you needed an interpreter to translate for you, and trains never ran on time, if they turned up at all. And rolling stock so old it rattled and shook lol. I don't travel by train much but when I do I'm always amazed about how much things have improved from what I remember when I was a youngster.
I used to travel by train in the BR days, and it wasn't a reliable way to get to college or work - I'd be late more often than not. Now for years on the GWR line and commuting pretty much every day into town I can say it's a massive improvement, with 90% of the delays coming from National Rail work overrunning.

I also lived in Germany for five years and people there moan as much as people here. In the UK travel on what I'd consider to be the equivalent to the Munich S-Bahn into London, and the trains have been modernised twice here since the 90s. I went back to Munich last year and there were still 1970s trains on the S-Bahn, they started to replace a load around 1999/2000 but then they must have stopped. I was shocked at how shabby the whole S-Bahn network stock is now.
 
It does seem bizarre to want to press on with something like HS2 while cancelling basic things like electrification of other routes - surely if you give the non-London regions a fair shake at having a decent network then you might find that the need for capacity out of London is less of a pressing issue. Would be nice to replace the headspan electrification on the East Coast mainline as well as the delay hours caused by the low-cost build are surely astronomical.

I don't know how much of it is people wanting large projects they can leave behind as a legacy, as incremental improvements don't really achieve that.
 
i work on railway infrastructure renewal projects and the network in general is ******, basically fire fighting just to keep it working. there needs to be a top down renewal of the railway which is still running on the basis of a Victorian network but would cost billions, instead of a stupid project like HS2 which is a massive waste of money (20BN) they should invest in getting everything up to the same standard then implement a TMS solution nation wide, then they could think about making new lines. There are still some lines that havent been electrified...and as for 3rd rail on an open railway wtf!!
How can you work in the industry and say that. It's expensive and a pain in the rear to upgrade old tracks,especially when there's alack of capacity.
Adding new tracks,makes it so much easier to then go back and upgrade old tracks. The resignalling for the electrification is miles behind, and so few opportunities to actually get on the infrastructure and work on it.
 
i work on railway infrastructure renewal projects and the network in general is ******, basically fire fighting just to keep it working. there needs to be a top down renewal of the railway which is still running on the basis of a Victorian network but would cost billions, instead of a stupid project like HS2 which is a massive waste of money (20BN) they should invest in getting everything up to the same standard then implement a TMS solution nation wide, then they could think about making new lines. There are still some lines that havent been electrified...and as for 3rd rail on an open railway wtf!!

In Canada the only electrified rail we have is LRT lines in some major cities (we call them streetcars). As far as actual trains are concerned, we don't believe in that electrified crap. We have a railway that runs from Vancouver on the west coast to Montreal near the east coast. Not electrified. No electrified freight or passenger trains outside subway/tube/underground and LRT which are very local. We rock that good old stinky diesel... and old locomotives. But hey, Canada CLAIMS to be a very environmentally conscious country so who knows? So what if I have one nuclear powerplant about 1.5Km south of me and another one 30Km east of me? So what if the one just down the road from me is the oldest still operational nuclear plant in the western world? (it really is). So what if we have one of the dirtiest most environmentally destructive oil mining operations in the world out in the prairies? We're environmentally conscious goddamnit! And we have subways! Ever since 1958! :P :P
 
I renewed my Season ticket last weekend.. £40 shy from £4K PA..

This morning, 2 lots of 4 carriage trains arrived replacing what normally would be 12 each. Disgraceful..

TBH I don't completely blame the train companies.. Towns and City's like Chelmsford are becoming increasingly and densely populated with people migrating from inner London areas for cheaper housing while continuing their commute to London. There are 6 people in my office from Chelmsford, all of them once lived well inside the North Circular area. I recall 25 years ago boarding my normal train spoilt where to sit.. now.. you're lucky if you can get on the same train after all these years. The infrastructure can't expand at the same rate of the population growth.. The same can be said for the roads.. and it's not going to get any easier..

Still.. i'm pretty ***** off that I pay this money and find that I'm having to stand crushed most mornings now..
 
I renewed my Season ticket last weekend.. £40 shy from £4K PA..

This morning, 2 lots of 4 carriage trains arrived replacing what normally would be 12 each. Disgraceful..

TBH I don't completely blame the train companies.. Towns and City's like Chelmsford are becoming increasingly and densely populated with people migrating from inner London areas for cheaper housing while continuing their commute to London. There are 6 people in my office from Chelmsford, all of them once lived well inside the North Circular area. I recall 25 years ago boarding my normal train spoilt where to sit.. now.. you're lucky if you can get on the same train after all these years. The infrastructure can't expand at the same rate of the population growth.. The same can be said for the roads.. and it's not going to get any easier..

Still.. i'm pretty ***** off that I pay this money and find that I'm having to stand crushed most mornings now..

Looking at it at a broader scale surely that kind of thing must have an impact on productivity, etc. in this country - in the long it must be better overall if people have a smoother commute.
 
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