Closed due to snow, deducting staff pay

[Itchytrigg]

Looking for advice as I'm pretty mad about this.

My wife's work closed due to snow recently, like a lot of companies in the area. Her work cannot be done remotely, another site is possible (if they had need for extra staff) but was not offered/requested.

The choice was made by the area manager to close the location at about 6 am last Friday morning and has now decided that all the staff will be unpaid for that day.

They are all permanent contracted employees. My wife is "part-time" at 30 hours per week, in case that makes a difference for her case, however no members of staff at the location will be paid including the full time staff.

From what I find online, this should not be permitted (https://www.gov.uk/travel-disruption-your-rights-at-work) however it's wording includes "usually" to keep it vague.

What recourse is there? Her direct manager (who runs the site) is fighting this but getting no where and being told this is legal.

To me, it's not the money, it's the principal and shows zero respect for hard working staff who barely make above minimum wage anyway.

 

[Martynt74]

I'm not a lawyer but i'd have thought that if the office is closed then everyone should be paid.

I know if the office is open and your wife couldn't get in she wouldn't be paid (or at least not expect to be), but this is different.

 

[cheesyboy]

Depends on her contract. you need to read it - there might be provision for shuttering the office.

 

[Semple]

ACAS cite this:

Paying workers when an employer decides to close
Workers who were ready, available and willing to work will usually be entitled to their normal pay:

• if their employer fully or partly closes their business
• if their employer reduces their hours
• if other essential staff such as line managers are unable to get into work
• if staff who provide access to the building are unable to get into work.

Some contracts and workplace policies will say what workers need to do in special circumstances like these. This might include things like working at the nearest accessible workplace, doing other duties or working from home.

Some contracts may allow employers to 'lay off' some staff without pay. However, it must be completely clear how the circumstances apply and anyone with employee status will usually have a right to a statutory guarantee payment. For more information see Lay offs.

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2797

Was your wife able to get to work that day?

I think also with your wife being on a part-time contract, this will make it more difficult for her. What does her contract say in regards to her hours/working days. I.e. is she contracted to work Mon-Fri (6hrs a day), or is she contracted to do 30 hours per week (4 out of 7 days). If the latter then her employer may insist that rather than working the Friday, she works her hours on another day of the week that she'd usually be off (essentially swapping days around). For FT employees it becomes much harder because they are likely already working 5 days if the business is only open 5 days a week.

Would probably be worth ringing ACAS and seeing what they say.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Another vote for a very careful study of her contract and the company’s terms and conditions.

 

[Itchytrigg]

Thanks chaps, will find her contract to check (been there for about 10 years so that might be difficult!). She is contracted for 5 days a week 6hr days, she was full time but went part time after the kids were born.

To be honest, the chances of her going to work were slim to none and fully expected to have to make the hours back if that was the case, as she has done before when this or childcare has been needed. This time the employer is not asking that, nor even asking they take as holiday, just straight up you are not being paid. Historically when they have closed they have paid everyone if that makes any difference.

As mentioned, they are treating all employees the same regardless of contracted hours or status so it's not that she's been singled out here.

 

[-westy-]

Does the site have an inclement weather policy?

Ours was conveniently recirculated last week: If the employee chooses not to come into work then they must take that day unpaid, or use a day's holiday pay. However, if the site manager chooses to close the site then we all have a day's pay. I'm surprised that it would be legal to close the site and not pay employees - it's not exactly their fault that they can't go into work on a closed work site!

 

[Itchytrigg]

Does the site have an inclement weather policy?

Ours was conveniently recirculated last week: If the employee chooses not to come into work then they must take that day unpaid, or use a day's holiday pay. However, if the site manager chooses to close the site then we all have a day's pay. I'm surprised that it would be legal to close the site and not pay employees - it's not exactly their fault that they can't go into work on a closed work site!

Trying to see if that policy can be located along with contract. Latest today is they are not backing down in the challenges the manager is posing so far.

EDIT: Found the employee handbook, the only notice I can find in here is related to Lay off/short term working. "If a situation arise where there is a reduction of work, or there is any other occurrence that affects the normal running of the business, the [business] has a right to either lay off without pay other than statutory guarantee pay or implement shorter working hours"

"The [business] will pay statutory guarantee pay in accordance with the current Government regulations".

So this is the most likely policy they could try to apply, however they don't appear to be following this given the refusal of pay at all. The guarantee pay amount is a pittance to be honest...

 

[Itchytrigg]

So small update, they are now permitted to take holiday instead of being unpaid.

 

[ivrytwr3]

So small update, they are now permitted to take holiday instead of being unpaid.

But she didn't want to take a holiday, the company closed the doors.

 

[Itchytrigg]

Correct. They do close over Christmas for a couple days which they do have to use holiday for, but that is part of their contract/employee hand book, I also think that's reasonable given they are all aware of it. My company use to do that till recently as well but instead now opt to give them to us as company holidays.

There appears to be no more budging on this so the holiday "offer" is being taken whilst then following up with citizens advice. Another employee was doing that but has now dropped it as they're going to be paid a couple hours as the managed to do some paper work from home (they're one of maybe 2 that could do that).

As I put it to my wife, even if this is legal, the way in which they have chosen to manage it has just angered an entire office over what is at most £2K (educated guess based on wife pay + 25%) with the only possible outcome of angering everyone. It's another, and hopefully final for my wife, showing that they care zero for their staff and don't even try to hide it.

 

[-westy-]

Correct. They do close over Christmas for a couple days which they do have to use holiday for, but that is part of their contract/employee hand book, I also think that's reasonable given they are all aware of it. My company use to do that till recently as well but instead now opt to give them to us as company holidays.

There appears to be no more budging on this so the holiday "offer" is being taken whilst then following up with citizens advice. Another employee was doing that but has now dropped it as they're going to be paid a couple hours as the managed to do some paper work from home (they're one of maybe 2 that could do that).

As I put it to my wife, even if this is legal, the way in which they have chosen to manage it has just angered an entire office over what is at most £2K (educated guess based on wife pay + 25%) with the only possible outcome of angering everyone. It's another, and hopefully final for my wife, showing that they care zero for their staff and don't even try to hide it.

How was she informed that the company was closing it's doors for the day? Was there an official communication send around?

 

[Itchytrigg]

How was she informed that the company was closing it's doors for the day? Was there an official communication send around?

Over whatsapp group they have.

 

[Uther]

No work, no pay, welcome to my life.

 

[Energize]

But she didn't want to take a holiday, the company closed the doors.

Employers have sole discretion of when employees take their annual leave however. They can decide to close on bank holidays, or not, or any other day of the year. Many employers close offices over Christmas and force staff to take it as holiday.

 

[ivrytwr3]

Employers have sole discretion of when employees take their annual leave however. They can decide to close on bank holidays, or not, or any other day of the year. Many employers close offices over Christmas and force staff to take it as holiday.

What happens if the office is closed due to adverse weather conditions?

"In some cases, depending on the severity of weather conditions or the number of stranded employees, it may not be economical or even safe for a workplace to remain open.

"If an employer decides to close a workplace, it may be able to send employees to another office or ask them to work from home. In any case, any employees with contractually guaranteed hours or salaries will still have to be paid if they are ready and willing to work, unless the employer can rely on contractual terms such as a lay-off clause.

"If your employer does withhold your pay, you could bring a claim for unauthorised deduction from wages. However, if your employer has inserted a ‘temporary layoff’ clause in your contract of employment, this may allow them to temporarily lay off employees without pay (other than statutory guarantee pay) and it may be permissible for your employer to close the business at short notice."

I get what you are saying about BH and Xmas etc, but this was a last minute decision by the company to close its doors. I suppose it comes down to who you work for, but if my company said they were closed for the day due to weather, then i still get paid.

 

[Jonnybmac]

Sorry to be blunt but I see an opposite to this.

Depending on how bad the snow was, if as you say your wife wasn't able to get in then surely it was safer to stay indoors? What if the opposite happened and your boss demanded you in and penalised you for being late? They took the safest option to ensure everyones safety ajd probably assumed a lot of people wouldn't be in anyways. By all means you should be allowed to work your hours back at your own convenience or take it in holiday, or unpaid if you are not bothered but I don't see why you should be paid for hours you never worked when technically work closed for safety reasons for everyone?

I've worked at places where they demand you in rain or snow yet currently at one where the attitude is to stay at home if the roads are too bad and not risk it and i much prefer the latter. If the place closed then i would assume it was for good reason.

 

[ivrytwr3]

No-one is disputing the company made the right call in closing, the query is, because the company decided to close for the day, should they pay their staff?

 

[Jonnybmac]

It's kind of an ethical dilemma really as I can imagine legally they will have to pay out yet realistically the button presser was probably thinking more of employees safety or possibly saving a few quid on electricity if only a few people are going to turn up anyways it depends what sort of company it is.

They should allow to earn the hours back so nobody is left out of pocket but I don't see why one should be paid if they haven't worked? If generally a company has done it to save a few quid yes i agree cough up but in the interest of safety I'm not too sure.

I say this now as i used to always get to work with snow, often out at 5am being one of the only idiots digging the estate out to ensure i get out to then avoid sketchy drivers and a grinding journey. I'd much rather have a peace of mind that I can just stay at home and avoid all the b****** and make my hours back when possible. I guess not everyone has the same lifestyle or opportunities to work hours back when possible though

 

[Itchytrigg]

They are typically a work place that demand you get in no matter what. About 10 years back my wife was pressured into going in and crashed her car (just into a curb, nothing major) as she didn't know how to drive in the snow. I still recall them asking her if she could get a bus the rest of the way when she told them what happened and reminder her she'd need to make the hours back. They're also the work place where illness doesn't exist, you will go in no matter what.

For me, it's about setting expectations. Based on the rare occasions they have closed they paid everyone, so why was this one different? As mentioned, they've semi-backed down and it's now taken as holiday and they are apparently putting together a policy for closures which they should have had before really.

To take a positive from this experience, it's given my wife the push to find a better work environment.