Losing control of high powered cars

[Drollic]

What's the reason for people loosing control of high powered rwd cars specifically under acceleration, on dry roads, and in a straight line? I understand whilst cornering, in the wet, or on a very uneven surface etc. I ask as just yesterday, an m4 (at least I think it was) completely binned it on the m42, armco preventing it from hitting my car as I was travelling in the opposite direction. Whilst it all happened really quickly and I couldn't fully see all vehicles at the given moment, it looked like it was under acceleration with the rear overtaking the front. Perhaps for good reason, I've no idea. There's always videos online of accidents (the lambo recently) whereby it all goes horribly wrong under circumstances where you think, how does that even occur with the various electronic aids?

 

[d_brennen]

People running out of talent before the car runs out of horses

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

Even your standard hot hatch these days has 300hp or more.
Plus, as all cars have multiple air bags, crumple zones, automatic braking, lane control etc. people feel safe in driving like a 'tard.

Even in my 115hp MK1 mx5 I have to be careful as it has zero safety features.

 

[Jasoncmor]

What's the reason for people loosing control of high powered rwd cars specifically under acceleration, on dry roads, and in a straight line? I understand whilst cornering, in the wet, or on a very uneven surface etc. I ask as just yesterday, an m4 (at least I think it was) completely binned it on the m42, armco preventing it from hitting my car as I was travelling in the opposite direction. Whilst it all happened really quickly and I couldn't fully see all vehicles at the given moment, it looked like it was under acceleration with the rear overtaking the front. Perhaps for good reason, I've no idea. There's always videos online of accidents (the lambo recently) whereby it all goes horribly wrong under circumstances where you think, how does that even occur with the various electronic aids?

I think its down to the driver giving too much gas, which spins the rear wheels and they loose traction, then because they don't have enough skill they essentially are in a skid, a slight movement of the steering wheel will force the car to loose complete control, again because the driver doesn't have the skill to control the skid.

 

[UnworthyBean]

Traction control can only so so much. If you floor it, the wheels will spin. They help prevent it, but you need some common sense alongside it.

 

[mccarf]

Lots of people treat the throttle like on on/off switch rather than use any kind of thought to how quickly they're pushing it down. Doesn't matter in a Nissan Micra etc, does matter when you have something as powerful as an M4 for example.

 

[Drollic]

I think its down to the driver giving too much gas, which spins the rear wheels and they loose traction, then because they don't have enough skill they essentially are in a skid, a slight movement of the steering wheel will force the car to loose complete control, again because the driver doesn't have the skill to control the skid.

I was under the impression the tc would kick in to prevent the skid though. If one of the rear tyres has lost its traction relative to the other side, you would think in a straight line it wouldn't be enough for the rear to start trying to overtake the front end? Perhaps the steering input from the driver is making things worse?

 

[IAmATeaf]

I was under the impression the tc would kick in to prevent the skid though. If one of the rear tyres has lost its traction relative to the other side, you would think in a straight line it wouldn't be enough for the rear to start trying to overtake the front end? Perhaps the steering input from the driver is making things worse?

Maybe they’ve turned TC off because they are a driving God?

 

[sja360]

I guess it should have restricted the power even if the person held the foot to the floor. He might have thought he could hold onto it and the car would miraculously find traction.

I know I've felt the car go loose after flooring it after leaving a roundabout and that was in the wet. Instantly I lifted off the accelerator and the car came back under control.

All these aids do make us far too complacent that the car will save us regardless and in some ways yeah it will. Your chances of dying are a lot less but on the other hand you lose perspective of its still dangerous to drive at excessive speeds.

 

[BinnsY]

Quite simply modern cars just have a huge amount of power and when not treated carefully it's so easy to overwhelm the limits of grip available.

To put it into perspective the origional M3 had about 220BHP and 225 wide rear tyres. A modern fiesta ST has 200bhp and 215 wide tyres so in terms of power relative to surface area for grip on the driven wheels they are pretty much on par.

The m4 has the best part of 430BHP and only 275 wide rear tyres. So whilst power has increased by 95% compared to the M3, the surface area for grip has only increased by 22%. I appreciate tyre technology has moved on and that the newer tyres they come with will offer more grip but once the traction control has been turend off it's effectively game over for any tyres when you have that much power.

 

[russ9898]

Tyres being cold can catch people out. I've recently upgraded from a 300ish BHP BMW to a 500bhp Jaguar XKR,i thought I was well versed in the handling of a high powered rwd car until I drove the Jag. When the tyres are cold in the XKR it can kick the back end out without being provoked, once they are warm however it is a completely different story and 2nd gear can be fully exploited with minimal loss of traction.

Edit: tyres on the rear of the XKR are 285 for reference

 

[Housey]

Because they are TERRIBLE drivers, a fact for the vast majority, the odd one or two being unlucky.

The problem is, many they think they are good drivers and that is when it becomes really dangerous.

So few drivers have any situational awareness or read the conditions. Add 600+ horsepower and it's disaster time.

 

[Housey]

Tyres being cold can catch people out. I've recently upgraded from a 300ish BHP BMW to a 500bhp Jaguar XKR,i thought I was well versed in the handling of a high powered rwd car until I drove the Jag. When the tyres are cold in the XKR it can kick the back end out without being provoked, once they are warm however it is a completely different story and 2nd gear can be fully exploited with minimal loss of traction.

Edit: tyres on the rear of the XKR are 285 for reference

A throttle is not an on/off switch. The art to driving a powerful car in any conditions is learning that and using it accordingly. You can floor most if not all 200bhp cars in anything other than ice and get away with it. Make that 500 or more and systems will not save your daftest actions. Throttle should be the decider of traction, not a computer and doing that well mans your wont see the TC light even when the weather is bad.

 

[russ9898]

A throttle is not an on/off switch. The art to driving a powerful car in any conditions is learning that and using it accordingly. You can floor most if not all 200bhp cars in anything other than ice and get away with it. Make that 500 or more and systems will not save your daftest actions. Throttle should be the decider of traction, not a computer and doing that well mans your wont see the TC light even when the weather is bad.

No disputing that, the throttle does need to be treated with respect in a high powered car but tyre temperature makes a significant difference.

 

[Housey]

No disputing that, the throttle does need to be treated with respect in a high powered car but tyre temperature makes a significant difference.

Yup, adjust right foot accordingly.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Many video examples of this online. Zero talent and entirely reliant on electronics - these of course have a limit.

Yup, adjust right foot accordingly.

Yup, this.

 

[Malevolence]

Panic and over-compensation.

 

[Minstadave]

There's a corner coming off a roundabout on my way to work that atleast once a month has a RWD car in the ditch next to it. It has some kind of magical power. I very quickly learnt not to touch the accelerator if it's rained recently.

MX5s, BMWs, a pickup (bet it was RWD) all claimed recently.

 

[dacads]

Straight dry road, tyre temp most probably has something to do with it. Or some kind of fluid on the road

 

[Housey]

Straight dry road, tyre temp most probably has something to do with it. Or some kind of fluid on the road

But most of all crap driving.