New Toyota Supra formally announced

Zeed · 20 May 2019 at 23:19

Nasher said:
It would take a lot of weight shedding and chassis stiffening, probably new suspension to get it close in corners I bet. The Supra has a very low center of gravity to compete with. Most people would just whack a SC or turbo in it, but that won't really much help unless it's a drag race.

Was thinking like this: 10k for Stillen supercharger Fited + full ultraracing reinforcments + meisteR coilovers +camber kits and polybushings ect. thats like 6-7k
That Would be my pick brand new tuner car with manual gearbox

Bear · 21 May 2019 at 07:08

grudas said:
You ever sat in a lexus? Toyota can make very good interiors.

No, but its hardly the same thing as they are trying to compete in a different market segment. If they didnt up their game in that segment (luxury/exec cars), they wouldnt last very long. Cars made by Toyota that arent Lexus in general have nasty interior plastics.

grudas · 21 May 2019 at 08:23

Bear said:
No, but its hardly the same thing as they are trying to compete in a different market segment. If they didnt up their game in that segment (luxury/exec cars), they wouldnt last very long. Cars made by Toyota that arent Lexus in general have nasty interior plastics.

but that's not my point, the supra is toyotas premium car so I bet they could've very easily pulled off a decent interior if they wanted.. aka lexus LC style etc.

it probably is simply easier and more cost effective to have bmw interior when the car is built there.

toyota is a known as "economy" car maker so by default they will save money where they can.

I sat in a brand new CH-R which is their small car and to be fair the interior is very well put together not premium soft touch materials everywhere but I hardly if ever rub the bottom of my centre console to care about plastic.

Nasher · 21 May 2019 at 08:25

You get the same soft, recycled plastics in everything now. Only difference is BMW etc wrap leather (not always real leather), suede, or vinyl on some of it.

For Japanese manufacturers reliability trumps a fancy interior. That is what their buyers expect. I expect a BMW to break at some point, I don't expect a Toyota or Honda to.

Scrutinize · 21 May 2019 at 09:19

grudas said:
but that's not my point, the supra is toyotas premium car so I bet they could've very easily pulled off a decent interior if they wanted.. aka lexus LC style etc.

Which they have done by sharing the platform and interior elements with BMW???

That's about as easy as it gets without massive investment in their manufacturing. BMW is the premium manufacturer here not Toyota, so Toyota are the ones who have done well out of the deal. It's not like they partnered with Skoda / Nissan / Renault / Ford etc.

The quality of the previous Supra interiors was typical Toyota so they could have stuck with their current and historic design philosophy on these, charged the same (52k) and probably not faced the faux criticism.

Just because they have Lexus under the group doesn't mean cross development and manufacturing would be commercially viable.

The Supra was / is a big risk for Toyota. It's double the price of the GT86 (after current discounts), it's over 18k more than a discounted Nismo 370z, the same price as a Porsche Cayman with a couple of options and a little bit less than a Cayman S. It's also more than the Z4 albeit they are roadsters.

It's also creeping into the new more luxury coupe market C Class/Lexus RC/Jag F Type etc which is realistically going to be where the 80s/90s fan/owner base who would be actually spending 50k plus on a new car are now at an age and that demographic where that money is going.

Nasher · 21 May 2019 at 09:29

It may be a loss leader. Something to change the manufacturer's image back to what it was in the 90s. Toyota kinda lost it when they launched the Prius and stopped making sporty cars.

It's not like they are actually short of cash.

Shadowness · 21 May 2019 at 09:58

Is it a different chassis to the Z4, or is that shared as well?

Where is it made too?

Lashout_UK · 21 May 2019 at 10:08

Shadowness said:
Is it a different chassis to the Z4, or is that shared as well?

Where is it made too?

Both made by Magna Steyr in Graz, Austria. Basically identical underneath, including the bushes, dampers and other suspension components (some derivative-specific variations aside).

There are a few minor differences, though; the steering rack and one of the anti-roll bars, I think, are two components that aren't listed as being directly interchangeable.

Conscript · 21 May 2019 at 10:09

I'm perplexed by the argument about interior quality. I will freely admit that I'm not massively bothered about high quality interior finishes, as long as they don't fall apart, and find some of the comments about Japanese interiors hyperbolic.
Even so, I can see the appeal of a BMW made interior. I don't really mind cheap interiors in a car built for driving, but I would welcome a higher quality of finish in some Japanese cars if it were available.

Toyota partnering with BMW now allows that, and I don't necessarily think it means an automatic reduction in quality. As I understand, Toyota have tested all the components of the car to ensure they meet their own quality standards, presumably as wont want to offer a 5 year warranty on it if they have no faith in it.

I'm still not in a position where I really want to replace my car...but this is one of the few that has piqued my interest and perhaps in a couple of years time, I might look to buy nearly new again.

Chris1712 · 21 May 2019 at 10:20

Maybe we should be happy that we even have this choice!? There's now quite a few to pick from in the 2 seater coupe market, it wasn't that long ago that list was only Boxster/Z4/350z.

Now we've got:
Boxster
Cayman
Z4 (seemingly the most capable one yet, even if it looks crap)
Supra (which now comes with the bonus of a nice interior / infotainment

)
A110
4C (well, sort of)
Elise
TTS (sort of)

I think there's too much nostalgia in here, the new Supra will absolutely wallop the old one in every measure - no question.

grudas · 21 May 2019 at 10:23

what I don't get is why are people complaining?

you got a choice of two great cars in a sea of boring or overpriced..

you got a great looking high performance and tunable coupe from japan with good bits from germany(engine, interior etc)
you also get a great looking roadster with multiple engines choices from germany.. and a premium badge that many seem to get moist about.

50k in this day and age for a performance car is cheap, very cheap.. I was expecting the new supra to be like the NSX 100k+ and sell 0 but at 50k RRP it is a great car, will probably hold it's value well too for a 2-3 years.

Martynt74 · 21 May 2019 at 10:40

grudas said:
what I don't get is why are people complaining?

Hello @grudas, Welcome to the internet

Myself i'd go for the Z4 purely because of roof down fun and i think it looks better. The disappointment for me is that they've done away with the hard top.

Shadowness · 21 May 2019 at 11:32

I'm not complaining at all, I'm not even in the market for either car and never will be.

If I was though, I just couldn't stomach buying a Supra, knowing myself and anyone else who's 'into' cars also knowing, that it's basically a tarted up Z4. I know lots of other cars share this production setup, but not an iconic car like the Supra. It just doesn't work for me.

grudas · 21 May 2019 at 12:29

Shadowness said:
I'm not complaining at all, I'm not even in the market for either car and never will be.

If I was though, I just couldn't stomach buying a Supra, knowing myself and anyone else who's 'into' cars also knowing, that it's basically a tarted up Z4. I know lots of other cars share this production setup, but not an iconic car like the Supra. It just doesn't work for me.

I know proper guys who are into cars, talking proper old school 90s early 00s jdm machines like s13s,14s, 15s, r32/3/4, chasers, jzx etc and all of them are excited for the supra

so maybe the "average" car guy is not the target audience ?

Raymond Lin · 21 May 2019 at 12:30

Last gen Z4 or Cayman over the new Z4 and new Cayman.

Simply for the hardroof and 6 pot.

But i am not buying, so its irrelevant.

Shadowness · 21 May 2019 at 12:50

grudas said:
I know proper guys who are into cars, talking proper old school 90s early 00s jdm machines like s13s,14s, 15s, r32/3/4, chasers, jzx etc and all of them are excited for the supra so maybe the "average" car guy is not the target audience ?

Perhaps, but I was literally chatting to a guy at work who has a nice modified S13......he pretty much said the same as me. And even corrected me when I said 'new supra'......you mean BMW Z4?

Conscript · 21 May 2019 at 15:32

Carfection have just release their video review, below. Might be of interest to some.
Claims it's lighter than the Mk4, I thought it was heavier?

At first I was a little disappointed that it's presented by Rory Reid, rather than Henry Catchpole - however, his reviews are much more watchable than they are on Top Gear.

Lashout_UK · 21 May 2019 at 15:38

Conscript said:
Carfection have just release their video review, below. Might be of interest to some.
Claims it's lighter than the Mk4, I thought it was heavier?

It's fractionally lighter than the UK spec TTs, which were the heaviest of the bunch (I think); the Mk4 was 1585kg in manual form or 1595kg in auto form. Toyota didn't, at the time, specify the standard of those measurements (not in the paperwork I've to hand, anyway).

The Mk5 is listed as having a 1495kg kerb weight or 1570kg with driver. Undercuts a UK TT, in any case.

I don't know what the kerb weights of JDM TTs were but they were probably a fair chunk lighter than UK cars.

Conscript · 21 May 2019 at 16:02

Lashout_UK said:
It's fractionally lighter than the UK spec TTs, which were the heaviest of the bunch (I think); the Mk4 was 1585kg in manual form or 1595kg in auto form. Toyota didn't, at the time, specify the standard of those measurements (not in the paperwork I've to hand, anyway).

The Mk5 is listed as having a 1495kg kerb weight or 1570kg with driver. Undercuts a UK TT, in any case.

I don't know what the kerb weights of JDM TTs were but they were probably a fair chunk lighter than UK cars.

I thought I remember seeing a weight of about 1300Kg or so, perhaps I was looking at JDM cars then. Thanks.

Lashout_UK · 21 May 2019 at 16:41

Conscript said:
I thought I remember seeing a weight of about 1300Kg or so, perhaps I was looking at JDM cars then. Thanks.

You'd have to go back to a Mk1 or Mk2 Supra for that kind of kerb weight! The lightest Mk4 I've read about was a custom-built track car, completely gutted and with zero creature comforts (and lots of bespoke parts), and that reportedly tipped the scales at ~1250kg.