Soldato
The contagion from Woodford will spread to Hargreaves Lansdown next.
Trading the stockmarket (NO Referrals)
- Thread starter mcast123
- Start date
Also got some money in Woodford. Selling it all when it comes back to the market seems the obvious thing but I think I’ll hold off. Let’s see how it’s restructured. I think selling will just consolidate losses when there’s the possibility for it to go back up.
I’m not hugely down from my initial price so I’m ok. No point thinking about “I lost x from the peak”. You never had that money!
I’m not hugely down from my initial price so I’m ok. No point thinking about “I lost x from the peak”. You never had that money!
Soldato
Oddly enough I hold WPCT and have done since it launched and it's done poorly most of its life apart from a few months at the beginning.
I sold my small holding of Woodford Equity income but it’s in two other portfolios I manage. Just going to ride it out.
Also bought some HL. yesterday but it could be like catching a falling knife that one. Woodford is only 3% of HL’s holdings? Seems a bit of an overreaction. There website clearly states the risks of investing.
Also doubled up on BF.B recently and they’ve had a great few days!
Also bought some HL. yesterday but it could be like catching a falling knife that one. Woodford is only 3% of HL’s holdings? Seems a bit of an overreaction. There website clearly states the risks of investing.
Also doubled up on BF.B recently and they’ve had a great few days!
Might well do... the thing is with stuff like this the sample size is generally not too big and you don't really know if these fund managers are actually adding any value. When you've got these long only guys holding positions for a decent length of time too they might have just got lucky a bit, they might just be returning beta... conversely he might well have just gotten a bit unlucky, some investors got upset over the unlisted/illiquid stuff and now that he's taken this action a fair few people are no doubt a bit miffed. It could well be that it becomes a good opportunity to get into the fund at a good price - we don't really know either way.
WTF was Kent County Council doing though... I'm not sure they really should be taking punts with stuff like this.
Why, out of interest?
ah - edit, never mind, self explanatory given the above post
Soldato
No, it isn't just that. HL seeded Woodford and supported him in the creation of his company, and have been actively promoting him and his fund right up to the point of it being suspended. The regulator is taking an interest in the 'best buy' tables they produce (Active Wealth 50 or whatever it is called these days), the cost of those funds and the amount of profit HL make from those funds.
Soldato
Not surprised there's a few here with investments in Woodford. I probably looked at his funds given I'm invested in 8 through HL.
Really, REALLY bad timing from them as well, but their Investment Times magazine arrived over the weekend with an annual Wealth 50 Report. Images below of the Woodford fund analysis/quotes from him etc. Whoever let that slip out the door without going "hold on, we need to re-print and send it a week later" is surely going to get a slapping this week.
Really, REALLY bad timing from them as well, but their Investment Times magazine arrived over the weekend with an annual Wealth 50 Report. Images below of the Woodford fund analysis/quotes from him etc. Whoever let that slip out the door without going "hold on, we need to re-print and send it a week later" is surely going to get a slapping this week.
Soldato
Very damaged indeed for HL. Kind of makes you wonder about their other 49 chosen funds...
HL were taking 0.75% for Woodford's fund in question. No conflict there at all. Nope.
HL were taking 0.75% for Woodford's fund in question. No conflict there at all. Nope.
It's a difficult one all round - I used the Invesco Perp High Income fund for years whilst he managed it - many many clients invested in it and did very very well over the years.
Similarly with Fidelity Special Situations fund and Anthony Bolton - great times, lots of happy investors, but when he left to start his own funds, similar things happened. Made money in first few years, then got caught out.
Almost a mirror image of two star fund managers at big companies, then both leave and things go south for them.
HL are their own worst enemy - the Wealth 50 list is ridiculous - They shouldn't have anything like that as it can be easily construed as advice and to be taking a fee from a fund that they are "promoting" is a joke of a situation that the FCA really need to be looking into.
Similarly with Fidelity Special Situations fund and Anthony Bolton - great times, lots of happy investors, but when he left to start his own funds, similar things happened. Made money in first few years, then got caught out.
Almost a mirror image of two star fund managers at big companies, then both leave and things go south for them.
HL are their own worst enemy - the Wealth 50 list is ridiculous - They shouldn't have anything like that as it can be easily construed as advice and to be taking a fee from a fund that they are "promoting" is a joke of a situation that the FCA really need to be looking into.
Soldato
Not surprised there's a few here with investments in Woodford. I probably looked at his funds given I'm invested in 8 through HL.
Really, REALLY bad timing from them as well, but their Investment Times magazine arrived over the weekend with an annual Wealth 50 Report. Images below of the Woodford fund analysis/quotes from him etc. Whoever let that slip out the door without going "hold on, we need to re-print and send it a week later" is surely going to get a slapping this week.
Don't they only promote funds on the Wealth 50 to make money. It seems there are many funds with better returns than those on any of the HL wealth lists. Seems like a scam to me.
Soldato
Oh I'm not saying it's good or bad either way. I'm invested in six Wealth 50 funds and four 'non-listed' funds, and what funds they have in that list seems to chop and change (used to be the Wealth 150 as well). I hold Lindsell Train Global Equity which is in their Wealth 50 and has had 38.71% gains since August 17.
I just thought it was pretty bad sending out a report that promotes/endorses two funds that are no longer tradeable/they've retracted their fees on etc. Rubbing salt into the wound of all the people who's doors that came through who have Woodford funds too. I'm sure given the PR storm whoever worked on the magazine just totally forgot about Woodford's inclusion and interview in it.
I just thought it was pretty bad sending out a report that promotes/endorses two funds that are no longer tradeable/they've retracted their fees on etc. Rubbing salt into the wound of all the people who's doors that came through who have Woodford funds too. I'm sure given the PR storm whoever worked on the magazine just totally forgot about Woodford's inclusion and interview in it.
I could do with some advice on share trading. I'm using the Halifax platform, even though it seems a bit basic (possibly to the point of insecure.... no 2FA...?).
Anyway, I'm thinking of investing in a fund which has 3 share classes.
#1 - General Income
#2 - Institutional Income
#3 - Institutional Accumulation
https://www.fundslibrary.co.uk/FundsLibrary.DataRetrieval/Documents.aspx/?type=packet_fund_class_doc_factsheet_private&id=263bac00-0cf4-4021-a623-09bdbf8e035b&user=Y1j5zjJzSXJWTNM/uCDdvyEvIteyy3Ab+kXXAWm8RNjQMPtn+5uebup/EOYUVSkl&r=1
For investing in this fund, Halifax share dealing provides all three possible as options for me.
Looking at guides over the internet, it appears that "institutional" funds are for large pension firms etc. Yet I am freely able to choose any of these to make regular investments in.
So is there any risk to me as an individual private investor investing in #3? I would rather go for an accumulation fund (the last of the three) to build up a savings when I eventually withdraw the funds. But, I'm unclear if I would actually be able to drawdown eventual profits from an "institutional" fund, even though Halifax lets me invest in them.
Some advice would be greatly appreciated.
Anyway, I'm thinking of investing in a fund which has 3 share classes.
#1 - General Income
#2 - Institutional Income
#3 - Institutional Accumulation
https://www.fundslibrary.co.uk/FundsLibrary.DataRetrieval/Documents.aspx/?type=packet_fund_class_doc_factsheet_private&id=263bac00-0cf4-4021-a623-09bdbf8e035b&user=Y1j5zjJzSXJWTNM/uCDdvyEvIteyy3Ab+kXXAWm8RNjQMPtn+5uebup/EOYUVSkl&r=1
For investing in this fund, Halifax share dealing provides all three possible as options for me.
Looking at guides over the internet, it appears that "institutional" funds are for large pension firms etc. Yet I am freely able to choose any of these to make regular investments in.
So is there any risk to me as an individual private investor investing in #3? I would rather go for an accumulation fund (the last of the three) to build up a savings when I eventually withdraw the funds. But, I'm unclear if I would actually be able to drawdown eventual profits from an "institutional" fund, even though Halifax lets me invest in them.
Some advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Soldato
The minimum investment for all but General Income is £250,000...?
That's what I don't understand - through Halifax I'm able to pick this (even when investing a small amount e.g. £100), so I'm guessing Halifax (as the platform) is able to allow this because they are treated as an institution? I will contact them tomorrow to clarify.
Soldato
Doubt it, I would have thought the trade will just fail (if you're even able to actually place it once it sees that you've put less than 250k in the box). Investing in funds isn't like straight up shares either, the order has to be accepted and in my experience that takes up to 24h as well.
Not sure it's available under Halifax "platform" - I know I can invest clients money into it from £1000 lump sum and £25 a month on Standard Life, Elevate and Transact platforms - Also I can invest into it under Fidelity platform with my SIPP/ISA from £25 a month.
No reason you can't invest into it but check with Halifax first.
Normally the instituational share class just means that the provider/platform must have £250k over all client accounts to invest before allowing access to it.
Good returns, solid track record, a little on the high side for costs (1.23% plus 0.11% transactional costs)
Thanks. I checked with Halifax and they say if it's available then it's fine to invest in. Like you say they must treat the cumulative pool of individual investors as an institution.
It does seem like a good fund with consistent return so fingers crossed it stays that way.
Soldato
I always thought the 250k was because some are dealing those amounts. I used to speak with someone actively swing trading large amounts on a pension fund near to retirement, considerable amounts but small % after a lifetime of saving I guess.
They stopped some years back and went back to passive again because the market barring last autumn isnt as 'interesting'
WPCT weakness seems an interesting case if its not leveraged especially or with liabilities like we'd normally see in a sell off like this then its a play on perception of performance. I've yet to see a really good article on the various pros and cons to it so far, seems similar to a bank run dynamic where it has a feedback effect. If its not leveraged or going to suffer internally from the negative price, etc and is a large discount to assets, I dont see its as weak as it appears or as serious. Obviously he should have kept a lot more liquidity or large sellable assets to hand, thats how his old funds were if I remember right still much in majority with large cap
JII issued warrants I used to own some. That was a source of funding to them and profitable for holders if the fund rose, I wonder if he has options like that.
SXX fell out of its range from rights, now a discount to the 15p, definitely weak now in a mirror of its 20p quick rise I guess a careful look at volume here might help show how seriously it might continue a decline, with so many large long term backers I dont see price as giving much information unless its also large volume. If its not going to get interesting till 2025 its relying a lot on speculation and is subject to volatility and swings up and down. Im very interested in how news and development plays out
Weir buy at 1485 with a stop at 1425 roughly I would like to see how that plays out. Its been a good long term performer for me previously with yield but I've read zero on them recently so cant say I have any confidence just I like the chart. It might be smarter to buy on strength over 1600 as thats an area of higher volume and so likely resistance then support if it can close above there weekly, monthly
The news on Morsi dying in Egypt I thought was relevant to CEY and possible upset. but also it could be nothing, very risky stock I always think but it pays and should do well with gold. AAZ doing ridiculously well, probably many others.
I need to read up on ACA also, with ABX making an offer to buy out the stock but its a discount to market price [I assumed ABX could force a buy out as they own most of ACA anyway]. I own ABX via a fund so I guess I'm good, they like their deals but can they do one with Tanzania, impossible to know
They stopped some years back and went back to passive again because the market barring last autumn isnt as 'interesting'
WPCT weakness seems an interesting case if its not leveraged especially or with liabilities like we'd normally see in a sell off like this then its a play on perception of performance. I've yet to see a really good article on the various pros and cons to it so far, seems similar to a bank run dynamic where it has a feedback effect. If its not leveraged or going to suffer internally from the negative price, etc and is a large discount to assets, I dont see its as weak as it appears or as serious. Obviously he should have kept a lot more liquidity or large sellable assets to hand, thats how his old funds were if I remember right still much in majority with large cap
JII issued warrants I used to own some. That was a source of funding to them and profitable for holders if the fund rose, I wonder if he has options like that.
SXX fell out of its range from rights, now a discount to the 15p, definitely weak now in a mirror of its 20p quick rise I guess a careful look at volume here might help show how seriously it might continue a decline, with so many large long term backers I dont see price as giving much information unless its also large volume. If its not going to get interesting till 2025 its relying a lot on speculation and is subject to volatility and swings up and down. Im very interested in how news and development plays out
Weir buy at 1485 with a stop at 1425 roughly I would like to see how that plays out. Its been a good long term performer for me previously with yield but I've read zero on them recently so cant say I have any confidence just I like the chart. It might be smarter to buy on strength over 1600 as thats an area of higher volume and so likely resistance then support if it can close above there weekly, monthly
The news on Morsi dying in Egypt I thought was relevant to CEY and possible upset. but also it could be nothing, very risky stock I always think but it pays and should do well with gold. AAZ doing ridiculously well, probably many others.
I need to read up on ACA also, with ABX making an offer to buy out the stock but its a discount to market price [I assumed ABX could force a buy out as they own most of ACA anyway]. I own ABX via a fund so I guess I'm good, they like their deals but can they do one with Tanzania, impossible to know
Soldato
FYI the Income has the same ongoing charge as the others on HL: https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-dis...ts/c/cfp-sdl-uk-buffettology-income-inclusive
Caporegime
Update, it is now up 9.6% since opening from mid-January (it was 10.6% last Friday), if it keeps up to the end of the year hopefully it will hit 20% which would be amazing. I am only hoping for an average of 8% annually so it is already ahead of the curve.