Soldato
Some of the pictures I've seen are astonishing! Il need to brush up on my photography skills!
Hiking, backpacking, trekking, mountaineering...
- Thread starter Col_M
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Some of the pictures I've seen are astonishing! Il need to brush up on my photography skills!
Soldato
So couple of quick questions ( two of probably many ) for you more experienced people.
I have sorted out a top and bottom base layer a down jacket rated for upto -30c. And waterproof top and bottoms
What would I ideally want to take
#1 as a mid layer for the upper ( I'm guessing a warmer and cooler option is a good idea?) but don't want to over pack.
#2 for trousers should I be looking for something in particular such as down fill.
Sure il have more questions to come
As a reminder this is for my trip to kazbek in July
I have sorted out a top and bottom base layer a down jacket rated for upto -30c. And waterproof top and bottoms
What would I ideally want to take
#1 as a mid layer for the upper ( I'm guessing a warmer and cooler option is a good idea?) but don't want to over pack.
#2 for trousers should I be looking for something in particular such as down fill.
Sure il have more questions to come
As a reminder this is for my trip to kazbek in July
Associate
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Kit is personal preference. Suggest getting down to an independent shop that can offer discounts on big purchases also.
For example, trousers i don't like. Base, trackies and waterproof pants for lower. Or in warmer areas, base and waterproofs only. If it were cold, then i'd use some vented insulated pants. But nothing worse than having no venting, no access to venting, having to pull up pants...
Sorry, had to wiki the climate at kazbek mt. What i'd wear would also depend on how long the trek is, which would dictate carrying amount, and then clothing being taken into account.
For me, having a warmer and cooler option would never be an option, that's heavy. Layering and venting is key. Softshells are light and warm, they pack down very nice, so that's an option if you want a down jacket and a lighter jacket. But never for me. In temps above 0* i'd just be using layering with a decent goretex jacket to wind break and rain, and not down jacket. But, depends on predicted amount of rain also.
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Oh, having a thin, light small hat, mid layer/softshell hood with waterproof hood for walking is keeps temps up considerably. Mid layer hood is pretty much a given for me. Adds little weight, and non restricting.
For example, trousers i don't like. Base, trackies and waterproof pants for lower. Or in warmer areas, base and waterproofs only. If it were cold, then i'd use some vented insulated pants. But nothing worse than having no venting, no access to venting, having to pull up pants...
Sorry, had to wiki the climate at kazbek mt. What i'd wear would also depend on how long the trek is, which would dictate carrying amount, and then clothing being taken into account.
For me, having a warmer and cooler option would never be an option, that's heavy. Layering and venting is key. Softshells are light and warm, they pack down very nice, so that's an option if you want a down jacket and a lighter jacket. But never for me. In temps above 0* i'd just be using layering with a decent goretex jacket to wind break and rain, and not down jacket. But, depends on predicted amount of rain also.
[Edit]
Oh, having a thin, light small hat, mid layer/softshell hood with waterproof hood for walking is keeps temps up considerably. Mid layer hood is pretty much a given for me. Adds little weight, and non restricting.
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Whatever you do, don't go up Ben Nevis is blizzard conditions in trainers!. . . As a reminder this is for my trip to kazbek in July
Who is organising the trip? They should give informed advice.
If you are anywhere near Keswic - visit George Fisher, you could also try the Paramo shop and even Cotswolds.
Realistically, unless you're caught out in some miserable weather, it probably won't be that cold and most likely if the forecast is rubbish, you won't be going for the summit. You'll be surprised how little clothing you actually need, especially when you're moving. I find it's generally worth suffering a bit in the cold on an alpine start so you aren't cooking when the sun comes up on the glacier and having to stop and delayer, wasting time. It's worth getting your clothing system nailed on before you go if you can to minimise faff as delayering when you're roped up is a pain.
Down trousers will probably be overkill. I've climbed up to around 4500m and have only needed softshell trousers. In places like Norway where it was about -25C, I used powerstretch leggings and windstopper softshell trousers. If you're doing the Normal Route, there aren't any technical sections so you won't be stood around belaying getting cold. Try and keep kit to essentials too as little bits here and there soon add up and everything is much harder at altitude!
Down trousers will probably be overkill. I've climbed up to around 4500m and have only needed softshell trousers. In places like Norway where it was about -25C, I used powerstretch leggings and windstopper softshell trousers. If you're doing the Normal Route, there aren't any technical sections so you won't be stood around belaying getting cold. Try and keep kit to essentials too as little bits here and there soon add up and everything is much harder at altitude!
Soldato
I have been discussing with the trip organiser also
I always love a good pair of boots so have invested into a nice pair of b3 boots as they are guides necessary list due to required crampon compatibility and safety ect
And I wear my trusty altbergs for UK walking!
Thanks for your input! I understand the whole less is more mentality and something I read being "if you can't wear it or eat it don't take it" so I am trying to go as light as possible. The kit I have so far gathered has been of the light weight variety ect
Will do a kit list and weigh it in a few weeks once its more filled out!
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So couple of quick questions ( two of probably many ) for you more experienced people.
I have sorted out a top and bottom base layer a down jacket rated for upto -30c. And waterproof top and bottoms
What would I ideally want to take
#1 as a mid layer for the upper ( I'm guessing a warmer and cooler option is a good idea?) but don't want to over pack.
#2 for trousers should I be looking for something in particular such as down fill.
Sure il have more questions to come
As a reminder this is for my trip to kazbek in July
I tend to have a a 4 layer upper body system rather than a 3 that I swap out.
Henley Hansen striped crew baselayer
Rab shadow hoody (breathable when active)
Jottnar elvar (enough insulation when combined with below)
Rab fuse ii (waterproof and windproof to knock the bite off
If its raining when strenuous I'll wear hoody and fuse ii, if its none strenuous I'll wear full 4 or take away the hoody. If I'm really going at it I'll probably just go in the fuse ii.
Not raining I'll take away the fuse ii.
I love my shadow hoody though it's so breathable. Cold if stood still but that's where the backup insulation comes in which is just enough. If winter conditions some people get an additional belay jacket to stick over the top of everything to keep warm but I've never had a problem with 4 layers though sometimes if really cold I'll add a t-shirt.
The trick is not to sweat so just wip a layer off as and when. Taking a light to mid insulation layer off is far easier than swapping it out for another and if you get a good waterproof shell it will be windproof enough I've found for UK.
I've never had problems with legs really I either use henley base layer legs with stretch trousers or insulated soft shells and overtrousers as backup.
How come you have b3 boots? Are you ice climbing otherwise b2 would have been sufficient and better for walking since they will be slightly less stiff
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How do you rate that? I've got some other Jottnar kit and the quality is great and as my old Atom LT is getting a few too many holes in it now I'm tempted to treat myself to one of those as a replacement.
At those kind of heights, the extra insulation in B3s is nice to have, especially if you suffer from cold toes. I've been grateful of having my B3s on sometimes, even on PD snow plods as they're much warmer than my B2s. My climbing partner ended up with frost nip after a bit of an epic a while back, apparently it's not fun!
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Soldato
Thanks for your input will have a look at your gear tonight. Yes there is ice climbing involved and a large glacier crossing so the guide required you to have or rent b3s for the trip
It's the most expensive jacket I've bought
I spent a month debating if to buy one but targetted ads on Facebook kept tempting me. I did ponder the atom but I didn't like how the cuff was or the bottom looked a bit short. I couldn't find a discount anywhere and emailing them they wouldn't give me one as they only offer discounts to squaddies and mountain rescue. In the end I managed to find a code sneakily which was enough for me to push the button.
Take out a free trial on fatmaps and use their members discount 
I do love it. It's enough insulation and looks good enough to wear as a daily casual yet on mountains is enough added to a layering system when nippy. Would certainly get more of their gear. Stellarequipment is another make that keeps tempting me to buy some gear but is expensive.
Think my next purchase will be an ME Lhotse
Yeh, that's what I've found, there's hardly ever any discount on them whereas other brands you can snap up cheap in end of season sales. I've got one of their waterproofs which is fantastic and I managed to get a discount code on that which brought it down to around the same price as ME jacket I wanted otherwise I'd have gone for the ME. Annoyingly the discount code needed to be used on two items though so I had to treat myself to a new hat at the same time.
The Atom has been perfect for me, but I've got an old version with no zip lock on the main zip. It seems like such a minor thing but it always works it's way down when you don't want it to. I'd buy another Atom but I'd rather support a British company, although the Atoms usually crop up in sales for a decent price. Cheers for the Fatmap tip, looks like they offer discount at quite a few places so might be worth considering.
The Atom has been perfect for me, but I've got an old version with no zip lock on the main zip. It seems like such a minor thing but it always works it's way down when you don't want it to. I'd buy another Atom but I'd rather support a British company, although the Atoms usually crop up in sales for a decent price. Cheers for the Fatmap tip, looks like they offer discount at quite a few places so might be worth considering.
Yeah I'd probably consider Jottnar over ME when the time comes to upgrade my shell. It's pretty basic in features but fits well. At 100gsm it is a jack of all and master of none but I do like that aspect of it. I have my hoody to cover strenuous activities so this is just complimentary insulation. I think the atom was 60gsm? So it is a little warmer than the atom which I'd say would be more similar to my shadow hoody in terms of use though I remember one person saying the atom was still too hot sometimes for strenuous activity which was why I chose the rab as I liked the fit and it's designed for breathability. It's Thermic pro which is kinda like polartec I've had in a previous montane jacket but stretchier.
You should actually try fatmap out, the free version has everything you just need a signal for it to work. I'm considering a subscription when it gets nicer weather as it's really useful and I like the 3D aspect for walking ridgelines
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Patagonia have recently opened a store in Bristol if it is of any help.
Thanks .. unfortunately I think the perennial patagonia stuff never goes on sale.. I need to inspect the stuff in decathlon, we have a newish store in cambridge.
Sorbothsane Shock absorber insoles for plastic boots (b3's a new one on me), with the walking poles with snow baskets.
I always carry a balaclaver too, with the spare mittens, in the base of rucsac, from chilled face experience.
.... and useful for day to day use too
salopette type high waterproof overtrousers(mountain range), with braces, and zips are useful if you need to wear a harness, and put on without removing boots .
Sorbothsane Shock absorber insoles for plastic boots (b3's a new one on me), with the walking poles with snow baskets.
I always carry a balaclaver too, with the spare mittens, in the base of rucsac, from chilled face experience.
I'm reluctantly going to have to powerstretch I like patagonia long johns with a polartec trouser, but don't seem to have many 200 weight ones anymore.
yes .. I've only ever considered as breathable top outer level ....
so that's where I've put most of the investment
.... and useful for day to day use too
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A nice gesture by four very lucky people but there must surely be some way of making people more aware of the dangers in hills and mountains, even in fair weather.
Don
I've never been up Ben Nevis, so this might already be there, but it just needs a big sign at the bottom of the tourist path over the path itself warning people that it's dangerous to go without the correct equipment for the time of year, much like what you get in ski resorts for gated terrain.
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I have been up Ben Nevis a few times (as a hill-walker, not a climber) and I have a vague feeling that there was a prominently displayed poster based on an article in a newspaper about some foolish people who went up in T-shirts and trainers and had to be rescued - may not have been there or may no longer be there?
Whatever, this sort of thing seems to happen all too often - there must be a better way - without restricting access?
Soldato
That only works if people know what the correct equipment is.
An average person with no hillwalking experience thinking about going up Ben Nevis in winter might consider the correct equipment to be warm layers of insulation, waterproofs, gloves, etc and not think about crampons, ice axes, goggles. Also, simply having the correct equipment isn't always enough - many people have got lost in the hills whilst carrying a map + compass because they didn't know how to use it properly.
It might be the case that more education than can fit on a sign is required. I don't know what the solution to that would be though?
Don
They can list that on the sign. It's a simple solution, at the moment (as far as I'm aware) there's nothing at all to warn people that though at sea level the weather might be relatively pleasant, another 4000 feet up it's a different story.
they probably assume they will have mobile coverage too, on ben nevis ... at least it was courtesy of that, that they knew where they were.
"The group used the what3words app to pinpoint their location."
... 3 map shows no coverage
... not sure how many (serious) people might now carry satellite phones, or satellite alert systems these days,
colleague did great divide bike 'race' where they had tracking beacons/devices .. so you have a spot on your online map.
"The group used the what3words app to pinpoint their location."
... 3 map shows no coverage
... not sure how many (serious) people might now carry satellite phones, or satellite alert systems these days,
colleague did great divide bike 'race' where they had tracking beacons/devices .. so you have a spot on your online map.