The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread

Soldato
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I see so breaks pretty much never happen?

Last ride the group did about 350-360w up the drag and I went to 420w over the top into 500w for about 15 seconds and couldn't keep a gap. I'd say going on level of effort that would be making people hurt.

Even in normal draft races breaks very rarely ever happen. I've done 2 races in the last 6 weeks where breaks have managed to actually get away and I race what, 3-5 times per week..... It's rubbish. Every race is a bunch sprint guaranteed.
My team is #1 ranked and we have the #2 ranked individual as well as Andy Turner riding. Yet we still cannot form breaks with these guys that would ride away from these folks solo at tempo pace in reality. Even coordinated team attacks with guys ending themselves to get the break and it's nigh on impossible in the big races.

If you are off the front solo doing 6-7wkg the bunch will reel you in doing 4-4.5wkg without even trying.
The only way a break will ever even have half a chance is if you get 4 people minimum all of whom are willing to take 7wkg pulls for 5mins. And then once you have 30 seconds you have to keep pulling at 6's for the remainder.... even then chances are you're still doomed.

This is why anything resembling a climb in the races is a smashfest every time. It is literally the only way to drop people by catching them out, causing a tiny split in the bunch so they lose the draft and get dropped. I've seen guys who are elite level be on the wrong side of a little split and then doing 8wkg they still can't get back on..... yet you ride off the front at 8wkg and the bunch will simply ride back on your wheel.

The drafting mechanics of the game are terrible and fully encourage boring racing.
 
Soldato
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Even in normal draft races breaks very rarely ever happen. I've done 2 races in the last 6 weeks where breaks have managed to actually get away and I race what, 3-5 times per week..... It's rubbish. Every race is a bunch sprint guaranteed.
My team is #1 ranked and we have the #2 ranked individual as well as Andy Turner riding. Yet we still cannot form breaks with these guys that would ride away from these folks solo at tempo pace in reality. Even coordinated team attacks with guys ending themselves to get the break and it's nigh on impossible in the big races.

If you are off the front solo doing 6-7wkg the bunch will reel you in doing 4-4.5wkg without even trying.
The only way a break will ever even have half a chance is if you get 4 people minimum all of whom are willing to take 7wkg pulls for 5mins. And then once you have 30 seconds you have to keep pulling at 6's for the remainder.... even then chances are you're still doomed.

This is why anything resembling a climb in the races is a smashfest every time. It is literally the only way to drop people by catching them out, causing a tiny split in the bunch so they lose the draft and get dropped. I've seen guys who are elite level be on the wrong side of a little split and then doing 8wkg they still can't get back on..... yet you ride off the front at 8wkg and the bunch will simply ride back on your wheel.

The drafting mechanics of the game are terrible and fully encourage boring racing.

Those are some frightening numbers when I'm 80kg.

How do you tell if the race will be draft or double drat? Going to do volcano circuit again tomorrow and hopefully do better than before.
 
Soldato
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Just be ready to do 4.5-5w for the first 3-5 minutes. Then hold 3.8-4w for the whole race and have something left to sprint with.

The short uphills will be a smash fest at 5-6w but if you can hit the front and then drift back you’ll be ok.
 
Soldato
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Those are some frightening numbers when I'm 80kg.

How do you tell if the race will be draft or double drat? Going to do volcano circuit again tomorrow and hopefully do better than before.

On zwiftpower.com on the homepage itself you see all the upcoming events listed.
To the right hand side, there is a bunch of columns.
The one that shows double draft (or full draft as they call it) is a little grey lorry icon.
Sydkysten Cycling - Carl Ras Race @ 15:30 today for example has it on and you can see the icon.

As usual, the Zwift Companion app is an utter waste of life and doesn't tell you none of this stuff. You have to rely completely on zwiftpower for the vast majority of things information wise.
 
Soldato
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On another note and one might interest the TT lads @Berger @SoliD @One More Solo

I done a TTT last Thursday on Zwift. There is a team called WTRL and they organise these and there is hundreds upon hundreds of teams all categorised and ranked. It's a crazy bit of work they put in to organise all this.

My team hasn't done the TTT's before but ODZ team are in the top ranked premier league these days and they asked my team for a few of us to ride for them. So it was a good opportunity to jump straight in at the top level without having to work our way up and get on the live stream event etc :p Mike Swart my teams founder, Andy Turner and myself got a ride along side ODZ biggest hitters.

You think Zwift races are hard until you do a TTT with a bunch of guys doing 450watt pulls. Absolutely horrendous. You have to come through like 7+w/kg for your pull and then sit mid 6's for your pull before easing down to 4.5 to stay in the line. Then getting toward the last 10k's you have guys dying and needing to close 3rd and 4th wheels in the line immediately after you just took a spell...... It is ridiculous levels of hard. I was full gas the last 2KM, like that full gas that is fuller gas than you thought you could even do levels of mental.

The course record was 44:59 and we done a 44:54. 2nd place beat us by 4 seconds and 1st place beat us by 9 seconds..... So you can see how competitive and seriously close it was over a 45 minute TTT!

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=889016 - results a bit messy, but it is the "E" marked cat on the left hand side as you scroll down a bit. "V" at the top is the womens results.
 
Soldato
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The drafting mechanics of the game are terrible and fully encourage boring racing.
They where built around general riding, hardly anything has really been built around racing. Doubledraft has been in Zwift since quite early on, Zwiftinsider seems to say 2018 which is more recent than I recall.

Well he's still got it @Roady he's a good lad so may as well use it instead of it being sat there.
That's very generous of you! At least the bad/worse/typical UK weather seemed to be confined to only 1 week (so you didn't miss it too much!).

Haha mate even C category is hard. So many should be B and so many Bs should be A.

I think I meant 0.3 miles out to be fair! I misread numbers being thay goosed. I did wait until 2-300m for the volcano sprint and smashed the group I was in. 830w for 15s due to the turbo limiting it.
Yeah I found the Vortex topped out at around that too. Some days it was 'worse' which really comes from the wheel slip/tyre pressures. Even with uphill finishes as it's unable to supply more than 7% 'max gradient' so with a kick it's really no more than an additional 2-300W you get from it. The power curve just isn't hard enough for riders with a good kick/high FTP and you find that with most of the on-wheel. There's only so much they can do due to the physical limitations of having a wheel/tyre in contact with a resistance unit. Think I got mine near 1000W times briefly a few times over several years of riding it. Unsure how! The fact it over-reads when it's overpowered I consider those efforts where similar to my 800W peaks I'm seeing now on a Direct Drive.

Yes, even C is hard. I'm quite a competitive C and can hold my own with most of them but there's sprinters in there still doing 10-12w/kg I don't stand a chance against.

How do you tell if the race will be draft or double drat? Going to do volcano circuit again tomorrow and hopefully do better than before.
At one point nearly everything was DD. It's calmed down now and you mostly find all the group rides with it on, with only a few races with it. The only ones which are generally advertise the fact. As @xdcx said.

My Zwift racing has been going quite well. I'm getting consistent around top10 placings in the 3R & Wahoo Ride Real Race Series in CAT C Zone 3. I missed the first couple so am not placed well on GC (#19th only raced 3 of 5) with the decider race being later tonight. Box hill. Have no teammates to ride for higher in GC (well only one but can't do much as she's not strong enough to make the front groups) but have been riding well with a couple of other regulars in the front groups I'm generally in. Will be riding with and probably for them, Joe or Phil.

Race #4 on the 2nd of June was actually null & void due to Zwift problems earlier in the day. Things where ok for our race but numbers where low as many skipped it. Gotham Grind on New York. Brutal course. I actually felt strong but worked too much earlier on. We had sandbaggers in the group so I wasted lots of energy closing gaps which should not have been there. I'd made plans to lead out Phil (he came 3rd) but the ramp into the finish I got caught out and barely hung onto the group. One of the best sprinters in our CAT won that one as he'd just sat in all race. I came in 8th sprinting to not be last in the group lol.

Second time around Race #4 on the 9th. The non-void race. I resolved to hold back for much of this so I stood a chance in the finish, which didn't work as a decisive split happened lap 2 and I ended up bridging across solo. Big effort as nobody came with me. I was still trying to recover when things began to split again with a group making it up the road. I had nothing to go with them and figured the group I was in being larger would reel them in. No luck. Sprinters duked it out and the other friend I've made (Joe) bust out a big one and beat the other main sprinter. We'd reeled in some dropped from the front and I'd pulled the group quite a bit dropping more out the back as I put one big effort in and nearly broke away. Got reeled in but in doing so they dropped more, the remaining riders with me where 2 from up front. Only 1 of them contested sprint and I held him off all the way to the line. Came in 10th.

Race #5 was on London, a fairly flat course I thought. But with the first ramp of Box in there and the escalators there was much to work on... I made an early split, let a wheel go and then closed it so trimmed the massive group down to around 17 riders. I tried to place well every ramp expecting things to split again and they didn't... Then of course the only ramp I got wrong a gap opened and I found myself on the wrong side of it! Had nothing to close, worked hard trying to see if front fractured but a 25s gap by the finish with Joe taking the sprint again. Me and 1 other chasing behind, he mostly sat on me as I tried to shake him. Although did prompt him to go long as I eased into the finish to be sure I had a sprint. Worked well and used his wheel to slingshot, he nearly kicked back past me but I held him off. It would've been a photo finish in the real world. For 15/16th lol. Actual results putting me in 12th.

Since then I've done a couple of others, a Crit city one which was my first race on that circuit. Really enjoyed it and came in 1st after a group of B's lapping the C group split things and I managed to go with them. Think crits really play to my strengths and I should be in B cat for them.

Then on sunday I did a long race (2 hours!) on Big Foothills course on Wattopia I've not raced before. I had really good legs and although sitting in most of the flats I was dishing it out on the uphills. Caused so many splits and decisive moves, coming in solo 4th as the top 3 had kept up the road with B groups. Hopefully those hills really mean I'll be ok on Box later. Titans @244W, Switchbacks at 274W, Corkscrew at 244W, Titans reverse 239W, Zwift Island reverse 270W. All of those at around my FTP (~245W) or above. Most impressed with the Volcano as that's pretty much 10 minutes at FTP in the middle of a 2 hour race, while still able to recover and keep racing. Really enjoyed that one too and mega training for me! Think longer races and maybe similar courses suit me too! :cool: :D
 
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Soldato
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That's cool you're actually doing a series with a GC. Something for me to look into. Glad to see you getting places, quite fun for what is a hard workout. I've not had the balls to do a big race like you big boys. :p

Regarding the double draft, turns out none of the races I've done had it on so can't use that as an excuse!

I was meant to be doing the volcano circuit again today with my boss but when I moved to the start line the turbo wasn't showing any watts, tried to pair but ended up having to leave.

Picked the closest race I could and thought it was flat but it was a bit nippy.

Didn't know the finish was a hill but stuck at it when it was hurting, 2 minutes at 430w with 1 minute of it at 500w :o

Having raced, sorry been in a race with, Davy Lines on the road I remember it feeling just as sore. Zwift app has me 2nd B to a woman and 7th overall. https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=901989
 
Soldato
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https://www.zwiftpower.com/league.php?id=371 - we currently got Andy top of GC for us so tonight is gonna be smashy smashy. As beyond tonight nobody will take time back from him.

We got individual GC and team overall on the last 3R series. Individual GC on KALAS which was the hardest series I've ever seen on Zwift. Then we got 2nd and 3rd on TFC's mad monday series in their GC a few weeks back as well so the series races are great fun and going well this year.
The guy who was 3rd on GC ahead of me at TFC let a wheel go so 4 of us drilled it and we dropped him to get me 3rd on GC in the last event. It was hilarious :) guy was off the back doing 10w/kg killing himself and couldn't come back :p

3x box hill tonight @Roady - It's going to be horrendous. Enjoy! :p
 
Soldato
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Just did a B race with a guy doing 5w/kg quite a lot of the time and finishing with 300w 4.9w/kg for 51 minutes. Should have been in A.

Good group of 11 got established from the 35 started and we worked well other than mr 5w/kg.

I'm sick of seeing this as I recon with my on road sprint of 1100w for 15s I'd have won that.


 
Soldato
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On another note and one might interest the TT lads @Berger @SoliD @One More Solo

I done a TTT last Thursday on Zwift. There is a team called WTRL and they organise these and there is hundreds upon hundreds of teams all categorised and ranked. It's a crazy bit of work they put in to organise all this.

My team hasn't done the TTT's before but ODZ team are in the top ranked premier league these days and they asked my team for a few of us to ride for them. So it was a good opportunity to jump straight in at the top level without having to work our way up and get on the live stream event etc :p Mike Swart my teams founder, Andy Turner and myself got a ride along side ODZ biggest hitters.

You think Zwift races are hard until you do a TTT with a bunch of guys doing 450watt pulls. Absolutely horrendous. You have to come through like 7+w/kg for your pull and then sit mid 6's for your pull before easing down to 4.5 to stay in the line. Then getting toward the last 10k's you have guys dying and needing to close 3rd and 4th wheels in the line immediately after you just took a spell...... It is ridiculous levels of hard. I was full gas the last 2KM, like that full gas that is fuller gas than you thought you could even do levels of mental.

The course record was 44:59 and we done a 44:54. 2nd place beat us by 4 seconds and 1st place beat us by 9 seconds..... So you can see how competitive and seriously close it was over a 45 minute TTT!

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=889016 - results a bit messy, but it is the "E" marked cat on the left hand side as you scroll down a bit. "V" at the top is the womens results.
Sounds bloody hideous and that's coming from someone who has just ridden my mountain bike for 7.5hours for 85miles/9000ft of climbing.

Would need to find some other club members to give that a go all my club are old geezers :D:D

On the plus side I got home and my missus has got me a Kwak glass and 10 kwaks as a present.
 

SPG

SPG

Soldato
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Even in normal draft races breaks very rarely ever happen. I've done 2 races in the last 6 weeks where breaks have managed to actually get away and I race what, 3-5 times per week..... It's rubbish. Every race is a bunch sprint guaranteed.
My team is #1 ranked and we have the #2 ranked individual as well as Andy Turner riding. Yet we still cannot form breaks with these guys that would ride away from these folks solo at tempo pace in reality. Even coordinated team attacks with guys ending themselves to get the break and it's nigh on impossible in the big races.

If you are off the front solo doing 6-7wkg the bunch will reel you in doing 4-4.5wkg without even trying.
The only way a break will ever even have half a chance is if you get 4 people minimum all of whom are willing to take 7wkg pulls for 5mins. And then once you have 30 seconds you have to keep pulling at 6's for the remainder.... even then chances are you're still doomed.

This is why anything resembling a climb in the races is a smashfest every time. It is literally the only way to drop people by catching them out, causing a tiny split in the bunch so they lose the draft and get dropped. I've seen guys who are elite level be on the wrong side of a little split and then doing 8wkg they still can't get back on..... yet you ride off the front at 8wkg and the bunch will simply ride back on your wheel.

The drafting mechanics of the game are terrible and fully encourage boring racing.

Try RGT, would be interesting on your comments on that front, I am not a strong rider really, but RGT drafting knocks the socks off zwift (oh and the silly power ups)
 
Soldato
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Hereford
I done a TTT last Thursday on Zwift. There is a team called WTRL and they organise these and there is hundreds upon hundreds of teams all categorised and ranked. It's a crazy bit of work they put in to organise all this.
Yup it's a great series and one I've always meant to get into but never have... The 3R guys I ride/ridden with on sundays 100km's (where I'm usually helping sweeping) have always said it would suit me. But me being the disorganised Zwifter I am the only times I've had the chance to ride it, I've usually not known until the Thursday afternoon and it's too late as the 3R teams are all well set by then as they have so many of them. The organisation from 3R for the series is quite impressive, so many teams split across the CAT's and they have their own ranking working alongside so riders are promoted to higher teams depending on performance and results/numbers. Then those teams have their own practice meetups and rides. All really well organised really considering how many riders there are and how much some of them ride... All from a team nowhere near the top of the leaderboards haha.

My Zwift racing has been going quite well. I'm getting consistent around top10 placings in the 3R & Wahoo Ride Real Race Series in CAT C Zone 3. I missed the first couple so am not placed well on GC (#19th only raced 3 of 5) with the decider race being later tonight. Box hill. Have no teammates to ride for higher in GC (well only one but can't do much as she's not strong enough to make the front groups) but have been riding well with a couple of other regulars in the front groups I'm generally in. Will be riding with and probably for them, Joe or Phil.
Box hill x3. It hurt but I really enjoyed that one! Not the decider of the series as I'd thought, we still have 1 more to go.

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=902067
https://www.strava.com/activities/3660765544

I rode in support of Joe's GC and by the end of it had it secured. I got an FTP increase to 251W even with my legs still feeling pretty good rather than empty at the end. Rode Box the first time stringing out the main front (massive) group. 277W average for me, so massive effort, although felt sustainable/repeatable. Second time I stretched things out at the bottom, but then eased as Joe got in trouble and spent the rest of the climb giving him a wheel and closing gaps for him. I got dropped on the escalators and was chasing a 45s gap solo into the bottom of the last climb. The other GC guy Joe was riding with (Beijer) who'd marked him the whole time got dropped half way up (great teamwork) so I was chasing him the whole climb. Closed within 5s just as it eased before the road markings. He'd got a wheel at that point and the gap went out so I stopped chasing. Until then I'd done the climb at 273W again, totally over my FTP (and around 4w/kg for me). I came in 8th. Weirdly I feel like I can do Box like that multiple times...

Seems like BRT have the GC pretty much sewn up after that one, Brendan their leader won the race with them taking a 1,2,3 & 4. With Joe in 3rd. And now Joe is asking me to join BRT.

Didn't know the finish was a hill but stuck at it when it was hurting, 2 minutes at 430w with 1 minute of it at 500w :o

Having raced, sorry been in a race with, Davy Lines on the road I remember it feeling just as sore. Zwift app has me 2nd B to a woman and 7th overall. https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=901989
You're not riding with a HRM so won't be placed in most of the popular races buddy!

Supreme effort and ride, yes New York is NOT flat! I love it there, always utterly utterly brutal.

3x box hill tonight @Roady - It's going to be horrendous. Enjoy! :p
I loved it! First time up Box with me pulling the C group to string things out we where 45s faster up there than the main B pack...! :D

Andy Turner is a fantastic rider, he's local (ish) to me and I've ridden with him a bunch of times on social/weekend rides. Still totally shocked the way he's ridden that he never made more of a name for himself away from the British scene or got onto a stronger British team to make it as a Pro. Strong TT'er and amazing solo/breakaway type rider.

I'm sick of seeing this as I recon with my on road sprint of 1100w for 15s I'd have won that.


You know the only way to solve that... Gotta change turbo to a Direct Drive I'm afraid buddy! :o

Sounds bloody hideous and that's coming from someone who has just ridden my mountain bike for 7.5hours for 85miles/9000ft of climbing.

Would need to find some other club members to give that a go all my club are old geezers :D:D

On the plus side I got home and my missus has got me a Kwak glass and 10 kwaks as a present.
I'd be up for that, but know most of you guys would be in B (or above) and I'm just a good C. Supreme MTB ride mate, your wounds seem to have healed well!?

And what the hell is a kwak lol
 
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Soldato
Joined
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@Roady our Box times were 5:42 first lap and then a 5:52 second lap. Both at 6.2w/kg and I got dropped on the second one..... My all time best 5min on Zwift is 378w and I done 377w last night..... I've done over 400w on the road for 5 mins a few times and over 385w 6 times on the road. I just can't do it on the trainer.

It's genuinely the case that the standards now on A+ zwift racing is that you need 6.6+ for 5 mins and don't even get me started on 1 min power needed.... I have the 10min+ power like Andy for this game but for 1-5min I truly need to do a heap of work to be competitive at that top level :(

Did that absolutely ridiculous finish line catch you out as well? I wondered wtf they were all going at then looked and it said "0.1km to go".... BLEUGHRHGHGH
 
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