E-Scooter discussion after fatal collision

[Malt_Vinegar]

I think there should be a new license class, like CBT, specifically for using any PEV on the road of any power, including e-bikes. Just to scoop up the people with no training at all, and increase the competence of all road users.

If you have a CBT/bike/car/etc license, it should not be required. However, the theory, and practical should now include notes, advice and questions on PEV use. I am also a great believer in the increasing the difficulty of a getting a CBT. It should be so much tougher, and also remove the 2 year re-take option to make it a proper qualification.

As such, these PEV should be have to be registered, display a plate at all time in use, and the rider be insured to ride (for on the road use). I would draw the line at taxing them, as they are a low emissions vehicle, so would not be subject to these charges anyway, and we should be encouraging their use.

 

[Energize]

I think there should be a new license class, like CBT, specifically for using any PEV on the road of any power, including e-bikes. Just to scoop up the people with no training at all, and increase the competence of all road users.

If you have a CBT/bike/car/etc license, it should not be required. However, the theory, and practical should now include notes, advice and questions on PEV use. I am also a great believer in the increasing the difficulty of a getting a CBT. It should be so much tougher, and also remove the 2 year re-take option to make it a proper qualification.

As such, these PEV should be have to be registered, display a plate at all time in use, and the rider be insured to ride (for on the road use). I would draw the line at taxing them, as they are a low emissions vehicle, so would not be subject to these charges anyway, and we should be encouraging their use.

Why impose restrictions on ebikes when their speed is the same as regular bikes though?

The whole point of them is to make cycling more accessible that's why children can legally use them.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Why impose restrictions on ebikes when their speed is the same as regular bikes though?

The whole point of them is to make cycling more accessible that's why children can legally use them.

Because they have a motor, and as such are a motor vehicle. So the same rules should apply when they are ridden on the road.

What kid needs an e-bike?? They can use their legs, just like I did, and every other kid I grew up with.. Hell, it might even help with the epidemic of childhood obesity whilst they try to keep up with their license carrying adults on e-bikes!!

 

[Energize]

Because they have a motor, and as such are a motor vehicle. So the same rules should apply when they are ridden on the road.

What kid needs an e-bike?? They can use their legs, just like I did, and every other kid I grew up with.. Hell, it might even help with the epidemic of childhood obesity whilst they try to keep up with their license carrying adults on e-bikes!!

Except that the law states they are not a motor vehicle.

You are using circular logic to attempt to justify your argument here.

 

[Bear]

Except that the law states they are not a motor vehicle.

Exactly, an ebike is a motor assisted vehicle. Dont pedal then you dont go anywhere. An e-scooter is a motor vehicle

 

[Dis86]

Exactly, an ebike is a motor assisted vehicle. Dont pedal then you dont go anywhere. An e-scooter is a motor vehicle

Not necessarily true. I've seen a lot of bike modified so that the motor only provides propulsion.

 

[Bear]

Not necessarily true. I've seen a lot of bike modified so that the motor only provides propulsion.

Yes but the point is that its sold as and is an assisted vehicle, that someone illegally modifies the bike doesnt change that the original bike is an assisted vehicle and as such shoudnt attract licencing as a motor vehicle. I would be happy to see such people that do modify ebikes to be prosecuted under motorised vehicle laws though.

 

[Demon]

I would like a small set of progressive changes made to support e-bikes and e-scooters.
- Remove the requirement to only assist, this will allow wider adoption of e-bikes and instantly make many e-scooters legal.
- Increase the power limit. adding 50W (300W) would allow e-scooters like the M365 Pro to be legal, that's powerful enough IMO and remember that's 13 times less than the power limit for a moped! It also benefits e-bikes because they are heavier and it only makes it easier to ride.
- Keep the 25km/h limit as the unassisted limit (anyone peddling can easily surpass that), again. many e-scooters (including the M365 pro) are already limited to this and I feel for the main that is a sensible speed (approx 1/2 that of a moped)

I don't want to get dragged in to the black and white 'they have a motor so are motor vehicles' argument, call current e-bikes whatever you want, they don't require insurance or a license to ride, making one tiny change about 'assistance' doesn't seem ridiculous.

And people should ride an e-scooter before really condemning with assumptions about stability and stopping ability, the M365 is far more stable than anyone ever expects, even my Mrs who struggles on a bike balance wise (such infrequent use) finds the e-scooter easier to ride and with regenerative braking and a disc brake, it's perfectly adequate and there are no problems braking from 15mph.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

^^ that pretty much.

I might even go as far as saying 500w but limit the acceleration to what a 300w can achieve on flat ground. It would be nice to be allowed a bit of extra power to get up hills at a reasonable pace. 15mph is plenty IMO.


Those 2kw+ scooters that do 45mph are just nuts and frankly dangerous, you’d never catch me on one.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Except that the law states they are not a motor vehicle.

You are using circular logic to attempt to justify your argument here.

I know, I am not attempting to justify it, I AM justifying MY opinion. I don't agree with the current state of the system. I believe that anything with a motor, being used on the road, should be treated as a motor vehicle. Ride them off road as much as you like where they are allowed, but on the roads I fully believe all the same rules should apply to motor vehicles. Based on the things I have already explained in my previous posts.

You are free to disagree with me btw, I am not trying to have an argument. I stated my opinion, and why i believe it. That's how internet discussion works.

 

[d_brennen]

Whatever they do these need to be banned from the pavement or at least collected and scrapped from offenders. They are rapidly overtaking lycra clad warriors as my pet peeve

 

[Dis86]

Yes but the point is that its sold as and is an assisted vehicle, that someone illegally modifies the bike doesnt change that the original bike is an assisted vehicle and as such shoudnt attract licencing as a motor vehicle. I would be happy to see such people that do modify ebikes to be prosecuted under motorised vehicle laws though.

Again not always. Kits are often sold which allow you to do this to an existing bicycle. So it's irrelevant whether it's an illegal modification or not, people illegally modify their cars and motorbikes every day!

 

[Junglist]

I just find 15.5mph an issue when trying to overtake some cyclists. 20-25mph would be perfect imo

 

[VincentHanna]

I just find 15.5mph an issue when trying to overtake some cyclists. 20-25mph would be perfect imo

Which is why I think the 32Kph (20Mph) North America limit makes more sense on ebikes.

It's slower than a moped still, but allows you to overtake slower cyclists and keep up with traffic better in urban environments (meaning frustrated/impatient drivers of cars make fewer dangerous overtakes)

 

[Dis86]

I just find 15.5mph an issue when trying to overtake some cyclists. 20-25mph would be perfect imo

20 would make sense to me. Allows you to pass most cyclists really. The issue does come though when you get that Muppet who rides on the pavement...

 

[Demon]

I just find 15.5mph an issue when trying to overtake some cyclists. 20-25mph would be perfect imo

@25MPH that's far too close to a moped which needs a license/MOT/helmet/Insurance to be likely to be ever introduced.

I'm OK if they considered 20MPH, but would think mandatory helmets would need to be stipulated as 20MPH no doubt significantly increases the risk of serious injury..

 

[VincentHanna]

Absolutely, I think helmets should be mandatory for ebikes.

And all bikes really.

 

[Junglist]

20 would make sense to me. Allows you to pass most cyclists really. The issue does come though when you get that Muppet who rides on the pavement...

To be honest 15mph is perfectly good enough for being able to cruise home it's just you're stuck at that annoying speed when trying to overtake people. If I was able to constantly cruise at 17-20mph I'd he happy and puts you faster than most cyclists.

Yeah I only use my bicycle on the roads (and I get annoyed at anyone over the age of 16 cycling on pavements) my EUC I had to use on the pavements at times but then I'd just go walking pace and as soon as I was on the roads/cycle paths I'd go to the max 15mph. If the side of the road was riddled with potholes then I have to take the pavement as one wheel isn't great for bouncing through pot holes.

I didn't wear a helmet but I always had a red light clipped to my bag and a flashing white light clipped to my coat and sometimes one on my hat as well. Plus my unicycle was also set to flash and use a brake light.

Not sure if I agree with the mandatory helmets. For whatever my reasons I chose to not wear a helmet (YMMV) but I can ride faster than 20mph on my bicycle and it's not mandatory there so why should it be mandatory for a eBike, Scooter or EUC.

 

[jpaul]

Whatever they do these need to be banned from the pavement

from the government document it seems (local) legislation is required before they could be allowed on cycleways ... but even for trials on roads, what legislation have they enacted ?

I guess, I need to try an escooter , but unless the roads are smooth (like the SanF utubes), at 15mph I'm surprised they feel stable, without the gyroscopic effect you get on a much larger bicycle wheel. 27" vs 10"?

On (uk) roads , for a motorist(who should go to specsavers) emerging at side junctions , an approaching escooter will not be so distinctive from the posture of a pedestrian,
speed has to be limited to give motorists some basis to evaluate closing speed;
escooter braking system/tyres, also need to match the max speed allowed. (I wonder what the rules are for a moped)

I'd imagine police would be looking at legality of an escooter (ie max speed) following any accident.

 

[Junglist]

Can't comment on a scooter but I'd be surprised if they didn't feel stable. my EUC feels rock solid and I only have a small one. The bigger ones are decent at off-roading