Significant incident Plymouth

Soldato
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I don't really think that the existing gun laws are the problem here, this to me is a much wider problem relating to social media, extremism and mental health.

This person was so far down the rabbit hole of depression, and had been consumed by this whole incel nonsense - it was inevitable he was going to have a meltdown. If he hadn't have had access to a gun, he could have done 50 different things to kill just as many people just as easily.

By focusing the discussion squarely on gun laws, it runs the risk of politicians getting distracted, crowbarring in quick fixes which don't solve the root cause and don't provide any actual solutions to the problem in the first place.

It's a bit like when people blame violent video games for these sorts of incidents and start calling for them to be banned. When in reality all it does is derail the discussion away from the deeper problem than needs to be fixed, that has nothing to do with violent video games.
 
Soldato
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Of course they shouldn't take responsibility... His tweet is daft and in the same vein as "all men should take responsibility for violence against women and misogyny"

Both opinions are just stupid and kneejerk

Now that "incel" is out in the public domain, you wonder if being male and long term single will eventually lead to suspicion of them "being a bit dodgy" when some might just prefer being single...

Who knows where this might lead now given how people like to judge than try to understand.
 
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Soldato
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Yet i know people who have had their social media trawled by police before issuing a license and suprise suprise the media is reporting that he recently had his license renewed which means my original post was 100% on point

By D&C Police? Every force will have its own processes for this, just because you know a guy doesn't mean it happens everywhere and not every force will have the resources to do that sort of research.
 
Soldato
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I'm finding it difficult to process how someone would willingly shoot a 3 year old child, I can understand (perhaps not the correct choice of word) someone loosing their **** and taking their frustration out on the world and randomly shooting people.

But come on a 3 year beautiful innocent kid, breaks my heart seeing the pics of her.

Me too, its insane. Young deaths always hit harder but even more so for me since i became a dad. I literally just can't fathom how someone could do something so terrible to such innocence. :(
 
Man of Honour
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It's a bit like when people blame violent video games for these sorts of incidents and start calling for them to be banned. When in reality all it does is derail the discussion away from the deeper problem than needs to be fixed, that has nothing to do with violent video games.

Yup - it is a cheap and easy fix for people who don't play video games, don't care the impact on people who do or understand people who do often seeing them all suspiciously as potential perpetrators waiting to happen. But they'd soon change their tune if it was a hobby they enjoyed.
 
Soldato
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Me too, its insane. Young deaths always hit harder but even more so for me since i became a dad. I literally just can't fathom how someone could do something so terrible to such innocence. :(

I watched a few of the guys videos, he was obviously depressed and frustrated with his life but was coherent and articulate. Not some raving lunatic seeing visions of the devil etc

I would rather blow my own nuts off that hurt that child or any child, makes no sense.
 
Soldato
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Bucks
Of course they shouldn't take responsibility... His tweet is daft and in the same vein as "all men should take responsibility for violence against women and misogyny"

Both opinions are just stupid and kneejerk

Now that "incel" is out in the public domain, you wonder if being male and long term single will eventually lead to suspicion of them "being a bit dodgy" when some might just prefer being single...

Who knows where this might lead now given how people like to judge than try to understand.
Problem is its easy to understand what an incel is...less so to go down the red/blue/black pill route which form a large part of it...if people can't understand the levels some of these individuals are at they are going to find it hard to get help at the 'softer stages'...of course most are harmless but the anger/warped reality is there and needs to be addressed.

Social media and hive minds don't help the situation of course
 

fez

fez

Caporegime
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Hmmm, the problem runs very deep. Apparantly, women need to take responsibility from, well, a homeopath.

Maybe women should open their legs to any old scumbag because it is their role in life :(

I mean homeopaths are a danger to society but I think thats another topic for discussion.

I find it genuinely really scary that there are some people out there who think like this! :(

Its really not that far removed from all the hand wringing about "men" when Sarah Everard was murdered. Blaming an entire gender for the actions of a single person. Difference is that this guy is blaming women which obviously isn't the done thing.

I think both arguments are ******* stupid. Women are not responsible for this and men are not responsible for Sarah Everard.

You will always get nutter and wrong 'uns in society, there is little you can do about that. There are plenty of sociopaths who have channeled their "energy" into productive things like being nasty business owners or ****** bankers and the like. Most people like this guy just live angry, miserable and lonely lives and hurt no one other than maybe with some of the crap they spout online. Occasionally one will. Overreacting to it will do no good.
 
Soldato
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I think the big failure of this situation is that nobody picked up on his mental state.

I'm not aware of any requirement to attend a counselling session when getting a license, or when its being handed back to the person.
 
Soldato
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7th Level of Hell...
Problem is its easy to understand what an incel is...less so to go down the red/blue/black pill route which form a large part of it...if people can't understand the levels some of these individuals are at they are going to find it hard to get help at the 'softer stages'...of course most are harmless but the anger/warped reality is there and needs to be addressed.

Social media and hive minds don't help the situation of course


Quote lifted from BBC News:
Sir Peter Fahy, a retired chief constable and former policing lead on the prevention of terrorism, said police and government may need to re-examine definitions of terrorism as the threat from jihadist groups appears to diminish and other threats grow.

"The real concern of the authorities is around right-wing terrorism, it's some of this real extreme ideology, particularly coming across from America and particularly this developing theme around hatred for women," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

Slightly concerning in more than one way.
 
Soldato
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N. Ireland
The key differences between a firearm and other weapons (clubs, knives) are avoidability and how much damage can be imparted in a short amount of time by an unskilled individual.
Don’t waste your time. I’ve never seen so many apparently intelligent and articulate posters act so idiotic by comparing guns to cricket bats etc. Sadly though it happens time and time again when mention of changing gun laws surfaces, seemingly intelligent people lose their minds. It’s rather baffling.
 
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3,172
I mean homeopaths are a danger to society but I think thats another topic for discussion.



Its really not that far removed from all the hand wringing about "men" when Sarah Everard was murdered. Blaming an entire gender for the actions of a single person. Difference is that this guy is blaming women which obviously isn't the done thing.

I think both arguments are ******* stupid. Women are not responsible for this and men are not responsible for Sarah Everard.

You will always get nutter and wrong 'uns in society, there is little you can do about that. There are plenty of sociopaths who have channeled their "energy" into productive things like being nasty business owners or ****** bankers and the like. Most people like this guy just live angry, miserable and lonely lives and hurt no one other than maybe with some of the crap they spout online. Occasionally one will. Overreacting to it will do no good.
Oh I totally agree that the blaming of all men after Sarah Everard was utterly ridiculous, too.

Clearly so much more needs to be done to encourage men to seek help and that it's not unmanly or whatever to get help.

I suppose these Incel groups are providing the support and validation that they don't feel they can get or are not feeling comfortable to get for fear of ridicule.
 
Soldato
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La France
Jesus more crap about banning guns. Why would you ban the use of guns that can provide a fun a hobby/sport because of some nut job.

The law works just fine and it seems the police are fault for handing the gun back over. This isn't the USA so don't compare us to them.

Because it works. There hasn’t been a shooting with a legally held semi automatic rifle or high capacity pump shotgun since the post-Hungerford ban and there hasn’t been a shooting with a legally held handgun since the post-Dunblane ban.

The field sports and clay shooting groups were only too happy to throw others under the ban bus as long as they kept their bolt action rifles and double-barrelled shotguns.
 
Soldato
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This guys mother was constantly calling the NHS and police, yet they give his guns back. We can have all the procedures in the world. But it seems when lapses appear they can have deadly consequences.

The police dropped the ball big time on this.
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Dec 2009
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10,254
This guys mother was constantly calling the NHS and police, yet they give his guns back. We can have all the procedures in the world. But it seems when lapses appear they can have deadly consequences.

The police dropped the ball big time on this.

It’s all well and good calling government services, but when they have been cut to shreds since austerity, the services cannot cope.

If you have 2 ambulances, and 3 serious issues, 1 persons not getting an ambulance who needs one. It’s the sad state of government cuts.
 
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