Should bullying at schools be a criminal offence?

[cheesefest]

I personally think its down to what level of bullying it is. If its a little name tease - no. If the bullies attack pupils that require hospital treatment, torment them on social media constantly or criminally damage property - yes.

I was a victim of both physical and verbal bullying so much so I had to change to the other half of the year of school. The school years were split into two. One half had English whilst the other was doing Design at the same time.

 

[BowdonUK]

When you have a criminal record your life prospects drop. So they can become a self fulfilling prophecy i.e. if nobody will give you a job then you're more likely have to turn to crime.

The whole idea is total nonsense. 45,000 euros or up to 3 years in prison... so they will lock up a 12 year old for 3 years?

This is some Nazi-like stuff. Another example of Othering. Writing people off.

 

[jsmoke]

It's just enforcing it that's the problem. Bottom line is, the bullied become bullies it's a never ending vicous cycle. Kids pick up on their parents or peers attitudes so if a parent was a bully then likely their kid will become a bully.

It's just human nature to be jealous and want to do others harm as a result especially when you've been 'opened up' to painfull humiliation so to speak. So you'd essentially be fining people for being jealous, that's real medieval attitudes.

But revenge is satisfying in the short term.

“Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.”

 

[ThundyCat]

I got bullied relentlessly at school due to my weight as a kid, then when I reached 14 I suddenly shot up in height and trimmed out. The funny thing is my height put these bullies off, so the looked for new meat and ignored me.

Still had my revenge, I put them in headlocks and wrapped my knuckles over the thick skulls.

Silly really, as I shouldn't have had revenge. But as a kid you make silly decisions sometimes.

 

[Efour]

Silly really, as I shouldn't have had revenge. But as a kid you make silly decisions sometimes.

Nah like you say, you were a kid you knew no better, revenge is a natural feeling. Anyone who judges you on that would be silly IMO.

 

[Martynt74]

I got bullied relentlessly at school due to my weight as a kid, then when I reached 14 I suddenly shot up in height and trimmed out. The funny thing is my height put these bullies off, so the looked for new meat and ignored me.

Still had my revenge, I put them in headlocks and wrapped my knuckles over the thick skulls.

Silly really, as I shouldn't have had revenge. But as a kid you make silly decisions sometimes.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

French nerds are the worst nerds, with their stripey shirts, onions around their necks and garlic breath, they deserved to be bullied harder than last time.

Be careful, some of those chaps conceal knives inside their baguettes.

 

[R.P.L]

If the bullies attack pupils that require hospital treatment, torment them on social media constantly or criminally damage property - yes.

Those things are already criminal offences though.

Silly really, as I shouldn't have had revenge. But as a kid you make silly decisions sometimes.

Sounds like you made a pretty reasonable decision to me

 

[GreatAuk]

Crazy idea imo. As much as it's a terrible thing I see bullying as one of those interpersonal things where criminalising it would a) be very difficult to enforce as there would be no end of excuses and lies from the bully that would be very hard to disprove, b) punishments might not be in society's best interests in the long term if the kids sent to prison end up with stunted education and social development and no employment prospects, c) not necessarily somewhere the law should get involved.

Maybe I see it a bit like cheating on a girlfriend/boyfriend - yes it's a terrible thing to do, but it shouldn't be illegal. Not somewhere the law should be involved.

If things escalate to the point of serious physical harm, stalking, or theft / vandalism of property then those things are already covered by other laws.

Seems to me that schools are in a much better place to deal with bullying than the criminal justice system. Tellings off, interventions by teachers, detentions, and eventually expulsions if nothing else works being much more appropriate responses than locking the bully up or fining them 1000s of pounds.

 

[bloodiedathame]

My 10-year-old son recently got a temporary exclusion for alleged bullying. He's got mild/severe autism, and as such has almost zero filter and almost zero empathy, and a lack of ability to control himself when he's overly stimulated. He's hard work, he will tease, he will get aggressive and he sometimes won't stop what he's doing without physical intervention. From seeing how he treats his brother (and the cat), there's a definite potential for him bullying people at school (he's tall, outspoken, and intimidating for his age). However in the recent case, my understanding of his exclusion was more because of teasing that he was part of, and then a failure by the school to safeguard both my son and the other child involved (someone forgot to tell the PE teacher not to put them in the same group...) which led to the kid nearly getting kicked in the nuts (after literally asking my son to do it by means of an apology for getting him into trouble the day before, then added to the situation other kids goading him to do it). 'I didn't want to kick him and I didn't really try, I just kicked out because I was being pressured, but I didn't actually kick him'. Since the exclusion, we've decided to home school him for half the day but increasingly doesn't want to go in at all... The incident and how it was dealt with (he didn't get to explain his actions or his side of the story to the school), has affected his confidence, his wellbeing, and his friendships, and that was just a 2-day exclusion...

Is such a penal system really appropriate when things are so complex? How would it treat my son? What happened to the progressive, consequence-based social education that parents and schools have been doing for the past 10+ years?

My understanding of the bullying 'label' is that it encompasses everything from consistent (daily/every interaction) name-calling, all the way up to consistent physical and mental abuse. That's a huge range of behaviors and potential outcomes. Surely it would make more sense to agree on a point where bullying becomes abuse, and then penalise as required. Bullying needs to be identified and dealt with, and if it continues then that's the time for harsher consequences. Fines don't punish the child. Incarceration might be an option if they've killed or severely injured someone, but they're actions way outside bullying, in my opinion.

 

[Chris Wilson]

There's nothing sweeter than revenge on those that do you physical harm, I think back with immense gratitude to Greater Manchester Police for how they allowed me to witness some none PC handling of two Somalians that mugged me in the city centre in the early hours. It was surreal and beautiful and far better than days spent in court. My gratitude also goes to one of the biggest police dogs I have ever seen who seemed to enjoy it as much as I and the coppers involved. Proper policing

 

[Diagro]

Some form of Bullying need to be treated as such.

Some is silly childish stuff.

But we have to remember, that some of the bullying happening in schools actually makes the child's life horrible, can cause depression and anxiety, and can end in suicide. The bullying that causes that should be treated as criminal.

I've seen some really horrible stuff in my time as a teacher.

 

[soundb0y]

How do you quantify bullying?

Assault , harassment etc are already their own crimes so what does this add?

 

[dave28]

This country is way too soft on school kids, years ago back in about 2007 a gang of girl bullies all beat up a girl they had been bullying, some of them held her down while they took turns stamping on her head. This was outside the school gates and she ended up in a coma.

Do you know what they did to that gang, expelled them from the school obviously but not one of them was sent to young offenders even for a day.

They were given some type of probation officer / minder lady ( some really soft old dear ) and they were all trained as hair dressers with tax payers money.

I actually met them all with their minder while they were also being trained in basic IT, and the worst thing was it was kept secret from everyone around them what they had done. I only knew because some locals told me who they were and what the minder was for.

To this day i am sickened by how the system treated a very very serious assault

 

[Rroff]

All a bully understands is a good beating that brings them to, or near to, hospitalisation. Quick, cheap and very efficient. They are usually cowards that have had the luxury of living off an ill founded reputation of being invincible.

One of the worst bullies in my year at school had a good couple of years physically on anyone else and was the one pulverising people.

Ended up badly beaten up himself but that was because he was going out clubbing from about 15 or so, could easily pass for 18, and messed with the wrong crowd.

 

[Roar87]

My 10-year-old son recently got a temporary exclusion for alleged bullying. He's got mild/severe autism, and as such has almost zero filter and almost zero empathy, and a lack of ability to control himself when he's overly stimulated. He's hard work, he will tease, he will get aggressive and he sometimes won't stop what he's doing without physical intervention. From seeing how he treats his brother (and the cat), there's a definite potential for him bullying people at school (he's tall, outspoken, and intimidating for his age). However in the recent case, my understanding of his exclusion was more because of teasing that he was part of, and then a failure by the school to safeguard both my son and the other child involved (someone forgot to tell the PE teacher not to put them in the same group...) which led to the kid nearly getting kicked in the nuts (after literally asking my son to do it by means of an apology for getting him into trouble the day before, then added to the situation other kids goading him to do it). 'I didn't want to kick him and I didn't really try, I just kicked out because I was being pressured, but I didn't actually kick him'. Since the exclusion, we've decided to home school him for half the day but increasingly doesn't want to go in at all... The incident and how it was dealt with (he didn't get to explain his actions or his side of the story to the school), has affected his confidence, his wellbeing, and his friendships, and that was just a 2-day exclusion...

Is such a penal system really appropriate when things are so complex? How would it treat my son? What happened to the progressive, consequence-based social education that parents and schools have been doing for the past 10+ years?

My understanding of the bullying 'label' is that it encompasses everything from consistent (daily/every interaction) name-calling, all the way up to consistent physical and mental abuse. That's a huge range of behaviors and potential outcomes. Surely it would make more sense to agree on a point where bullying becomes abuse, and then penalise as required. Bullying needs to be identified and dealt with, and if it continues then that's the time for harsher consequences. Fines don't punish the child. Incarceration might be an option if they've killed or severely injured someone, but they're actions way outside bullying, in my opinion.

Absolutely mental.

 

[dlockers]

Absolutely mental.

Which bit? The bit where he deflects and says none of it is his problem?

 

[Roar87]

Which bit? The bit where he deflects and says none of it is his problem?

No the part where a 10 year old gets a 2 day exclusion for being a bit silly in the playground. I bet schools are so soft these days I'd hate to be a parent.

 

[dlockers]

No the part where a 10 year old gets a 2 day exclusion for being a bit silly in the playground. I bet schools are so soft these days I'd hate to be a parent.

You must have missed the first paragraph when he describes the archetype of a bully, and then the bit in the middle where he assaulted another kid

 

[Roar87]

You must have missed the first paragraph when he describes the archetype of a bully, and then the bit in the middle where he assaulted another kid

Why are you crying laughing? Are you ok?