Poll: F1 2022 - Pre-season testing and discussion

[CaptainRAVE]

Always an interesting watch. Every year Mercedes are written off and for the last 8 they’ve been at the front. They’ll probably bring a load more updates to the race weekend too. Some comments (Ferrari) that they were running their engine the lowest of any team.

 

[chrcoluk]

Havent been able to find long run times, those are the real measure of expected pace.

 

[bayo000]

I don't think we'll know till the race, FP3 earliest. I'd expect most teams will still be trying different parts and set ups during FP1 & 2.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Havent been able to find long run times, those are the real measure of expected pace.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/we-predict-the-2022-f1-team-pecking-order-after-testing/

Based off the times set in practice, although it's very much likely to change before the first race.

 

[this_is_gav]

My opinion is that Ferrari and McLaren hit the track running in Barcelona - with seemingly a good baseline from the off, and might have been outright quickest at that stage, but I can't help but feel Red Bull's and Mercedes' upgrades have seen them leap-frog since. That compounded with a terrible test for McLaren in Bahrain.

I think the general consensus is Red Bull look quickest at this stage, with them getting some good upgrades on and them working straight away. Ferrari haven't shown any real upgrades, but look to be in the ball park, fighting for podiums. McLaren have probably dropped back to fourth. Mercedes looked truly dreadful early on at Bahrain, but the last couple of days looked far better - whether you believe their claims that they won't be challenging for wins in the first few races is up to you (they say similar most years) but I'd be staggered if they aren't at least fighting for the titles by mid-season. Frankly I think they'll be challenging for pole in Q3 next weekend.

From a promising start McLaren are now the big unknown. The brake cooling problems in Bahrain weren't just an issue in limiting the number of laps, but it was worrying that such a problem existed in the first place - it's one of those things that you should be able to simulate relatively easily in CFD and the wind-tunnel (once they had confirmed correlation in Barcelona), so the fact they made it to Bahrain and couldn't rectify it at all is a concern going forward. The base of the car seems solid, but I don't think they'll be fighting for wins in normal races. I wouldn't put a pole-challenging performance beyond them (like last year), but I can't see them being that close regularly. Losing half the driver's feedback would have been a big blow too, and Ricciardo will already be on the back foot after a difficult first season - hopefully the relative lack of running in Bahrain doesn't cost him too much.

Haas seem to have a decent car, but remember their eye-catching times were set in cooler conditions, so I don't think they're about to jump half the field. Williams seem too to have a good car, but the utterly needless brake fire was a big set back. Alfa and Alpha both look decent, but I doubt Alpha will be as close to the front as they (well Gasly) were last season - Alfa need to sort their reliability out too.

Alpine - oh dear. To set a target of fifth is dreadful and rather telling. They had zero distractions and as many resources to put into the team as they wanted (pre-budget cap) as well as getting a head-start on the regulations, yet if anything they look further away from the other manufacturer teams than they were at the tail-end of 2021.

Much of the talk of Aston Martin's post-launch feeling was that they were already planning a 'B' spec car. That talk has fizzled away since Barcelona and they again look decent, but nothing special - another let down after committing time and money early on? Remember they claimed the reason for the Pink Mercedes was so they could concentrate on the 2022 regulations from an very early stage. They're probably somewhere towards the front of the midfield, around where Alpine will probably settle in after a few races.

I don't think anyone looks terrible - some better than others and some a little way off where they'd hoped, but I don't think anyone has fluffed their lines. It's good to see so many different concepts working, even if one is likely to emerge as the best path for coming years.

 

[Bug One]

I expect Mercedes to come to FP1 with a whole different floor edge design.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I expect Mercedes to come to FP1 with a whole different floor edge design.

Lots of people are expecting some big floor upgrades. I’ll be surprised if they are anywhere other than P1.

I’m expecting us to see a number of winners throughout the season as teams get to grips with their cars and bring updates.

 

[Mr Jack]

Based off the times set in practice, although it's very much likely to change before the first race.

FP1 is on Friday. I just don't think we'll see teams able to bring the kind of update that we saw last year prior to the race. Last year there was 12 days between test and race, this year there are 6. Given the time need to manufacturer and ship that make a huge difference to the time they have to actually understand the data, react to what they're seeing, and develop new parts.

 

[this_is_gav]

FP1 is on Friday. I just don't think we'll see teams able to bring the kind of update that we saw last year prior to the race. Last year there was 12 days between test and race, this year there are 6. Given the time need to manufacturer and ship that make a huge difference to the time they have to actually understand the data, react to what they're seeing, and develop new parts.

That's only the case for issues picked up at the Bahrain test though, in which case as you say it might be a race or two to bring upgrades to address them.

Teams do have planned upgrades in the works continually though - Red Bull had upgrades on their car on the first day of testing in Barcelona - so it might be a case of planned upgrades, or perhaps explored upgrades that hadn't yet been subjected to precious wind-tunnel time or manufactured until X or Y was observed at the track (which could have been during filming days or Barcelona).

There's plenty of time to ship upgrades to Bahrain, it's more a case of how far long the development path they are, if at all. I expect to see some floor changes, but I doubt we'll see major bodywork upgrades until the European season (whether that's Imola or the traditional Barcelona).

 

[bayo000]

How much development are teams allowed to do this year? Is it more than normal following the big rules changes?

 

[Entai]

How much development are teams allowed to do this year? Is it more than normal following the big rules changes?

Up to the budget cap, and cap on windtunnel time, and CFD allowences there is no limit


Put it this way, the limits have not been extended at all because of the rule changes, as far as I am aware.

In fact with regard to wind tunnel time, all teams have less allowences this year, although it is on a sliding scale in that top teams get less time than teams at the bottom of the grid.

 

[Mr Jack]

Up to the budget cap, and cap on windtunnel time, and CFD allowences there is no limit

Engine excepted, of course, just for clarity.

 

[Entai]

Engine excepted, of course, just for clarity.

Yeah development on engine totally frozen now unless you, as an engine manufacturer, can prove to the satisfaction of FIA and F1, and to an extent the other engine manufacturers, that any changes you want to do are purely to cure reliability or safety issues with your engine.

And do not only increase the performance of the engine.

 

[chrcoluk]

Yeah development on engine totally frozen now unless you, as an engine manufacturer, can prove to the satisfaction of FIA and F1, and to an extent the other engine manufacturers, that any changes you want to do are purely to cure reliability or safety issues with your engine.

And do not only increase the performance of the engine.

Its a funny rule as the two can go hand in hand, you increase the capacity of something, naturally also can improve reliability as then you can run it at a lower utilisation for same performance.

 

[Entai]

Its a funny rule as the two can go hand in hand, you increase the capacity of something, naturally also can improve reliability as then you can run it at a lower utilisation for same performance.

Yeah the new rules state that any engine manufacturer wanting to correct any reliability or safety issues with their ICE have to submit thorough detailed plans of the proposed changes to FIA and F1 who will check out the plans to make sure they do mainly only correct the issue they are having.

The FIA and F1 will also ask other manufacturers if their view is similar, just to make sure it is not a big performance enhancement hidden under guise of reliability or safety.

Only when all or most agree it is a change to mainly increase reliability/safety , will the change be allowed.

 

[Mr Jack]

Only when all or most agree it is a change to mainly increase reliability/safety , will the change be allowed.

I don't want to retread this, since we already discussed this upthread, but this isn't correct - that's not what the rule says - and @chrcoluk is correct that even pure reliability changes also allow increased performance. Interested readers can go and find the previous discussion.

 

[jaybee]

CFD?

 

[Slam62]

CFD?

Computational fluid dynamics ie computer time

 

[Entai]

I don't want to retread this, since we already discussed this upthread, but this isn't correct - that's not what the rule says - and @chrcoluk is correct that even pure reliability changes also allow increased performance. Interested readers can go and find the previous discussion.

Well you better go tell a lot of F1 engineers you know better than they do, as how I have explained it, is exactly how many have explained it to me when I asked ex colleagues how they see the rules being implemented this year.

Changes WILL ONLY be allowed that effect reliability and safety, if increased performance is deemed to be a main result, the changes will not be allowed.

There would be zero point in an engine feeeze, if manufacturers just built unreliable engines, knowing they can change things later and get better performance.

Which is exactly why any submitted changes will be shown to the other engine manufacturers so they can veto the change if they believe it will result in a noticeable increse in performance.

All manufacturers know this, so they basically self police themselves, possibly why we have seen very reliable engines all through testing.

 

[this_is_gav]

Yeah development on engine totally frozen now unless you, as an engine manufacturer, can prove to the satisfaction of FIA and F1, and to an extent the other engine manufacturers, that any changes you want to do are purely to cure reliability or safety issues with your engine.

That's not strictly true. The MGU-K, control unit and energy store are only frozen from September, so in theory can freely be developed until then - though of course grid penalties will apply if they start throwing updates around, which might be worth it in the long run if one of the manufacturers are adrift in the championship.