Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Anyone climbing on a Russian plane has a death wish

In a normal country, all commercial planes would have been grounded ages ago until the war is over, but not Russia they have to keep up appearances so they continue to fly planes with no maintenance
 
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It's not as simple as that. Russia is the biggest country in the world covering 11 time zones, so planes are essential. In addition to which many trains are being used for the war effort, added to the fact Russia can't make ball bearings which are essential for rolling stock, so sanctions are hitting train transport as well. Limit the movement of planes and trains and the logistics of supplying the front line becomes very difficult in addition to damaging the manufacturing economy.
 
As somebody mentioned a few pages back, Russia are restarting T-80 production, but what wasn't really known until now is why.

At first glance, committing scarce resources to restarting a production line that shut down 30+ years ago when you don't even have the parts on hand sounds ludicrous. Especially when you're still making T-72 and T-90 tanks, but there is method to the madness.

If they tried to increase T-72 or T-90 production they would have to create a whole new production line for a tank (I say a tank as the T-90 is itself a T-72 variant, renamed for marketing purposes) they're already struggling to get the parts for, but because the T-80 is an upgraded version of the Ukrainian T-64, it shares less parts than the T-72 and T-90. By restarting the T-80 line they open up alternative avenues for parts and it means they can salvage parts from T-64/80 tanks in storage that are unrepairable to fill in the short fall. Obviously the old line will not be reactivated overnight.

Another reason behind it is that while we never really hear of Russian successes in this war, they do occasionally have them. And one of their big-er successes thus far has been the introduction of the BMPT "Terminator", which is essentially a modern successor to the ZSU-23-4 (which is still in service today with many ex-Soviet states/allies, inc Ukraine). They have now upgraded this design into the BMPT-72 "Terminator 2" which uses a T-72 hull. This means that every new or modernized T-72/T-90 that rolls out the factory could have been a BMPT-72, and right now they want them more than they want extra T-72/T-90 tanks.

For anyone who hasn't seen one of these, image a T-72 with the turret replaced by four NLAWs and a dual autocannon, plus in uncharacteristic Russian fashion the optics to make it usable. So no harder to destroy than a T-72/T-90, but much more lethal on a modern battlefield.

So yeah, we knew that was happening but now we also know why.

Another interesting aspect of this - before the war on paper Russia had something like 400 active T-80s, about 400 operational ones in reserve and around 3000 in storage or somewhere along those lines. In 2017 they started a program to modernise/upgrade ~2700 out of storage to cycle out T-72s from elsewhere for maintenance (and ultimately as it turned out use in Ukraine) probably due to failings with the T-90 and T-14 to replace them. With this war it has shown only about 300-400 were actually modernised/upgraded or rather I suspect they pulled the upgraded ones out of the operational reserves and dumped a dilapidated hulk from storage in its place given how the numbers are fairly similar and probably why the person in charge of that committed "suicide" when the state of the operational reserves came to light.

If they are restarting T-80 production that probably means they've significantly eaten into the operational capacity of their T-80 fleet and/or what they can spare without degrading capability elsewhere.
 
More likely they decided the position was over run and not shelling them because they surrendered as a punishment. Whatever floats you mental boat though
 
it's nothing new

CivDiv a while back posted that pov video of his unit raiding a spetnaz unit held up in a house near Kharkiv and after they had killed most of the Spetnaz, the Russians called in artillery strikes on the house

So that's basic Russian tactic - if your position is overrun then you call in an artillery strike on the position if one is nearby
 
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It's not as simple as that. Russia is the biggest country in the world covering 11 time zones, so planes are essential. In addition to which many trains are being used for the war effort, added to the fact Russia can't make ball bearings which are essential for rolling stock, so sanctions are hitting train transport as well. Limit the movement of planes and trains and the logistics of supplying the front line becomes very difficult in addition to damaging the manufacturing economy.
you really believe they can't make ball bearings? a thing people were making almost since time began
 
you really believe they can't make ball bearings? a thing people were making almost since time began
Good quality ball bearings are extremely difficult to make. The tolerances required are so small that most metal-works can't possibly get there.
In WW2, the Germans had the same issue and it caused loads of problems for their supply of engines. They had only a couple of factories that could make the bearings and those were continually bombed by the allies.

Ball bearings are a relatively modern invention. The Industrial Revolution was powered almost exclusively by plain bearings and you won't find many inside a modern engine at all due to the cost of making them to a precision that would last a long time.
 
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you really believe they can't make ball bearings? a thing people were making almost since time began

I would suggest that it isn't that they "can't ever" as such, but that as they were previously a large net importer of BB's, with that supply now cut-off, it'll take time to create enough new factories/machinery to start making their own BBs again in the required numbers so it'd be more accurate to say that they "can't right this second" instead.
 
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I would suggest that it isn't that they "can't ever" as such, but that as they were previously a large net importer of BB's, with that supply now cut-off, it'll take time to create enough new factories/machinery to start making their own BBs again in the required numbers so it'd be more accurate to say that they "can't right this second" instead.
The supply was cut off months ago, surely they have factories making that stuff now or just import from China or NK instead
 
The supply was cut off months ago, surely they have factories making that stuff now or just import from China or NK instead
There's been claims made Russia is using Chinese ball bearings but their not made to a suitable standard that they can reliability replace what they were buying from Europe. Knowing Russians though they will make do with anything if it can get the job done sufficiently.
 
They know they can spin the supply of inferior parts to the public very easily if trains start de-railing or planes come down. It will just be the wests fault with sanctions because they hate the Russian people and their way of life.
 
They know they can spin the supply of inferior parts to the public very easily if trains start de-railing or planes come down. It will just be the wests fault with sanctions because they hate the Russian people and their way of life.
yea, Seems the unmaintained planes are still flying
 
The supply was cut off months ago, surely they have factories making that stuff now or just import from China or NK instead

For that you need people and knowledge to do it and they seem to be sending their labour/knowledge pool to slaughter. The problem this time, unlike WW2, is that the US isn’t sending them equipment to make up for the shortfall.
 
Seems these planes have been re numbered with new Russian maintenance records. Records of services and preventive work is no longer available. Most of these planes are stolen and have zero manufacturer support or any system to receive safety updates.
 
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you really believe they can't make ball bearings? a thing people were making almost since time began

As Rilot says ball bearings are a fairly new thing in metal working as they required a lot of technology to back them up.

High precision metal working to the tolerances expected from modern engineering is not easy and requires very high levels of skill in the operators and increasingly complex machinery with an ever increasing support structure, and that costs a lot of money.
Given Russia was meant to be making every part of certain things important to national security/independence "internally" so they could be independent of the rest of the world for things like tanks and tractors, and it turned out they were quietly buying in their "Russian" tractors from Europa in parts then assembling them on a production line and pocketing the very significant difference in cost it's not surprising they don't have a lot of that supposed capacity (one of the reasons you make a point of "producing everything needed" for something like a tractor in country is that a lot of those skills and tech are used in things like tank engines...).

And even if you've got the ability to turn the metal blanks into what you want, it doesn't mean you have the ability to reliably produce the quality of the metal blanks as that in itself requires you have steelworks that are capable of producing specific types of steel and do it reliably and consistently and the steel needed for modern precision heavy duty bearings is a very specific and I believe hard to make version (IIRC one of the ways a lot of western steelworks have survived the influx of "cheap Chinese" steel was to specifically specialise in the stuff the Chinese either don't make in bulk, or have trouble producing reliably).

China as a mundane yet extreme example make most of the worlds ball point pens (and have done so for decades), but IIRC it was only about 5 years ago they actually cracked making the bearings and nibs needed so they didn't have to import them from the likes of Japan and Sweden (one of the Chinese companies finally decided to invest in the R&D and it took several years).

Even just getting the metal right for a precision ball bearing is a highly complex task and requires very high QC at a well maintained steelworks, something that is very costly to do compared to making generally low quality steel, buying in the good stuff to pass QC then pocketing the difference (which has been the Russian way for a very long time now due to corruption*).

There are actually quite good reasons why a lot of "precision" stuff tends to be made either in large quantities by a very small number of companies, or in smaller quantities by companies that might well receive government assistance/preferential treatment for contracts to ensure a country maintains that capacity. Unfortunately for the Russian military, much of the money that was meant to maintain the ability of Russia to do that sort of precision work reliably seems to have gone into the pockets of criminals who happened to be friends with the people awarding the contracts who were more than happy to turn a blind eye to it (or rather get distracted by the shiny stuff in the suitcase).


*Even during the 30's and 40's it was common for production figures and reports to be falsified at every stage from the factory floor up, but at least back in those days there was a reason other than greed for a lot of it (if the choice is between lying about how well your factory has done and exile to Siberia or execution as a traitor you might well lie and hope for the best).
 
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Indeed. ^China has struggled for decades with making a ball point pen tip. IIRC the CCP is still funding that program.
 
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