how useful is a computing degree, honestly

[Deleted member 11679]

Finish the degree, it rounds off your education and sets you up for a successful career in whatever you do. It puts you on a level with a large percentage of your peers, and will give you a broad grounding which a job cannot guarantee.

 

[MikeHunt79]

So, if someone was to get a comp sci degree, what would sort of jobs would it help to get?

I'm guessing programming or may be project management?

 

[Vanilla]

I did my degree not to train for my IT job but to educate myself. Most of my CS degree had no bearing to work I did years after but do I have solid understanding of the computing principles and history. I dabbled with a wide range of things I would never have touched before - from electrical engineering to programming.

I'm in consultancy at the moment with an industry leader and a degree is a must (along with a large chunk of experience and certifications). If you want management an MBA is important although there are quite a few without an MBA, just a degree. Without a degree you need a lot of experience (i.e an old guy in the industry for 30+ years!) but with the younger group (under 30) a degree is expected.

Do the degree if you want to educate yourself. Don't do the degree if you'd rather spend three years working and getting experience. Either way enjoy yourself and don't worry about it too much.

 

[Vanilla]

So, if someone was to get a comp sci degree, what would sort of jobs would it help to get?

I'm guessing programming or may be project management?

Not Project Management. A business IT degree is more geared towards PM stuff.

I'd never be a PM personally, not the kind of stress I want. You know that guy sitting in the corner, sobbing and rocking back and forwards. That's the PM

You can do anything with a CS degree really. I went into Pre-sales consultancy with a large IT company. WIth the CS degree expect lots of programming and electronic engineering! If you don't like that stuff go for Computer Studies or something!

 

[DAVEM]

ok, well having read all your replies maybe i should clear up something:

the course I am actually doing is computer studies with artificial intelligence, so it would be a specialised course and i was thinking of going into research or something afterwards. However my other big idea was to go into consultancy. This is where my doubts for the actual usefulness comes into it.

[\QUOTE]


If you want to research in AI, like the others have pointed out a degree is must really and to be honest your going want to look at a decent universities.

Typically it'll be a case of either
BSc -> MSc -> PhD -> Industry / Academia
MSci -> PhD -> Industry / Academia

Perhaps read a few research articles in the area:
http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/rao/iros-06.pdf (example)

It can get quite mathematical-ish in AI.

FYI: Grad - Non Grad pay difference by subject:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/good_university_guide/article2253011.ece

Computer Science:
Grad Pay: 20,148
Non Grad: 15,580

Interesting stat

 

[Chrisss]

I was in the games industry for 5 years, no degree.

Doing what?

 

[~J~]

Doing what?

Compression routines for the graphics and sound in C64 games.

Didn't you ask me this a few months ago? I seem to remember a similar conversation with you.

 

[AthlonTom]

just to make matters even worse, yesterday i was sitting in the kitchen trying not to be miserable because im annoying myself now; and some guy in my flat's parents came in and i got talking to his dad who is a high powered IT consultant who does have a degree, although its in mechanical engineering and he said to me that there is absolutely no need for a degree to get into that line of work. He said how it's true that it will give you a headstart and less pay to begin with, but minus the 3 years and the debt of uni and theres not much benefits to a degree.

All of the top Technical Consultants in our place have a degree.

I don't think its vitally important for the qualification. But it is important in terms of the individual.

A lot of geeks who could be genius's won't be very employable in a customer facing role - they wont usually be that out of there shell - they probably spend all there time in there room alone in the dark playing with a keyboard etc etc.

However those that goto uni get a proper taste for the real world quicker - especially as many degrees include a good level of business modules, years in industry, case studies, real world projects etc


My 2p

 

[MikeHunt79]

Not Project Management. A business IT degree is more geared towards PM stuff.

I'd never be a PM personally, not the kind of stress I want. You know that guy sitting in the corner, sobbing and rocking back and forwards. That's the PM

You can do anything with a CS degree really. I went into Pre-sales consultancy with a large IT company. WIth the CS degree expect lots of programming and electronic engineering! If you don't like that stuff go for Computer Studies or something!

I just remember PM as it was one of the modules I hated back in uni! Which is probably why I remembered it (so I could avoid it).

I may have a look into the EE side of things, it sound pretty interesting.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

So you are saying that once passed the age of 30, your degree becomes worthless?

Yea, ok.

If you are still dependent on your degree after 9 years experience, you must be crap at your job.

 

[BigT]

I'm reading some very interesting posts on this subject, presumably some from people who have not yet had a wealth of experience in a professional working environment, and not had all that much experience of recruitment.

I used to work for LogicaCMG, indeed ran their graduate recruitment programme for a while, then worked for big and small companies and am currently a Management Consultant wokring with the likes of Cap Gem, Accenture, KPMG etc. I've recruited hundreds in all sorts of roles, but nearly always into IT firms.

I can tell you this. Although I am in favour of degrees as stated earlier, it will be largely irrelevant in your career as you progress in terms of what you learnt. That includes the generic business degrees as methodologies change over time and different companies tend to have their own processes that are similar to, but not exactly the same as, the ones you learn at Uni. An exception to this would be highly specialised roles like the AI mentioned earlier.

Look at many of the recognised professions and you'll see that you actually need the degree to get into the club and then the professional qalification or chartered status once you get a foot in the door. Want to be a Project Manager in IT? Well then best you have a degree to be considered for junior roles and then study PRINCE2. Accountant? Degree to get in and then CIMA or ACCA more often than not. Service Delivery Management? Degree and ITIL please. Law, actuary? All the same.

The degree acts as a passport into better job roles more often than not, since it is so often a pre-requisite. By no means exclusively so, but not having a degree is going to put you out of the running in many situations with big firms. All this assumes you have huge ambition though. If you're happy to take your chances or would rather be content in a similar role for your entire working life, then that's cool too. But remember this, I cannot think of one employment situation where having a degree would be a disadvantage.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

But remember this, I cannot think of one employment situation where having a degree would be a disadvantage.

Just as equally, having a degree does not always equate to having an advantage.

 

[[TW]Fox]

This thread appears to have turned into those who have a degree desperately trying to convince themselves they didn't waste 3 years getting it versus those who don't have a degree trying to convince themselves they don't need one anyway, so nerrr.

 

[Wicksta]

This thread appears to have turned into those who have a degree desperately trying to convince themselves they didn't waste 3 years getting it versus those who don't have a degree trying to convince themselves they don't need one anyway, so nerrr.

I guess individual circumstances are different for everyone. I've never missed having a degree, but then I was around during the IT boom in the mid 90s where you could pretty much name your price as a contractor and I gained a hell of a lot of experience. Now I'm in a fairly responsible job with people around my same age or older in similar positions and I'd say the ratio of degrees to non degrees is about 50/50.

So I just ask myself, did I enjoy the time when I should have been at university, as that would be the only difference between me and my Uni educated colleagues. Hmm well, yes - I had a cool flat in Virginia Water, a nearly new BMW M3 and I went motor racing at weekends. Meanwhile most of my Uni mates spent all their time skint and in the student union bar.

 

[Wang Computer]

This thread appears to have turned into those who have a degree desperately trying to convince themselves they didn't waste 3 years getting it versus those who don't have a degree trying to convince themselves they don't need one anyway, so nerrr.

Very true...

I can't possibly comment on the legitmacy of computing related degrees, but what I do know is I would have never got my job without a good degree from a good university. This is fact and is true for many, many professions.

Perhaps I would have been happier or more affluent if I'd taken the other approach and gone straight from school to work. I will never know.

 

[Felix]

I guess individual circumstances are different for everyone. I've never missed having a degree, but then I was around during the IT boom in the mid 90s where you could pretty much name your price as a contractor and I gained a hell of a lot of experience.

How many of you non degreer fall into this bracket?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Exactly. Wicksta got in at a good time. None of my friends who decided against Uni are currently driving nearly new M3's.

 

[Wicksta]

How many of you non degreer fall into this bracket?

Pretty much every IT contractor I knew in the 90s. Anyway, it doesn't really detract from my main point, which is that after so many years experience having a degree or not is 'meh'.

 

[BoomAM]

You didn't ask and I didn't say they where more intelliegent I answering your original question "Do CS tasks require more intelligence" and the answer to that is yes research and CS tasks require more intelligence than system maintenance jobs.

Are you aware of what 'maintenence jobs' entail?
Or are you judging on a few techies you've seen carrying monitors around?

I agree with that. Why do you highly dout that they'd be able to grasp the workings of network at a high level? I'd assume someone with a CS degree is a perfect position to do that.

I doubt it because despite what you obviously believe, having a CS degree isnt an indicator of superior intelligence. At all.

Once again, I didn't say the people themselves are more or less intelligent. I said the JOB requiires less INTELLIGENCE. Quite different.

Different yes. But its still wrong.

Having a job in CS doesnt mean that networking related stuff is easy to them.
If its easy then why would the company they likely work for employ techies?, if they could pay the extra however many grand to the CS person and say 'here, fix it yourself'.
Convieniece? Definatelly a factor, but the simple fact is that a lot of the worlds networks, internet included, wouldnt be running if it wasnt for the millions of technicians, administrators, ect; worldwide who are keeping it all running, maintaining it, fixing problems, ect;. And on internal networks, doing some fancy things with GPOs/ADs/Exchange/Linux/ect;

Sure, the CS person might be able to figure out some simple maintenence tasks for a lot of the stuff, but expecting them to learn enough to replace a techie in a reasonable time frame? Not a chance im afraid.
The CS hasnt been taught or trained to do that. Techies have.
And it goes visa-versa.

Despite what you appear to think, correct me if im wrong, having a CS related job isnt the top of the IT tree.
The top of that tree is the technician or admin that runs the network that the CS runs his/her stuff on.
In that scenario, he/she is god. And not because he has the passwords. But because he/she has the power to do anything and everything on the network with the knowledge he has. But he/she wouldnt be able to do any CS stuff very well, in the same way a CS person couldnt do the admins job.

If you think doing an admins/techies job is easy for someone who does CS, your very mistaken. Theres FAR more to administration than meets the eye.

Anyway, im not arguing this point any further.
So lets leave it for now before it degenerates. .

 

[Zefan]

I was in the games industry for 5 years, no degree.

It's changed a lot now, nearly all employees are graduates so if you don't have a degree you'll have to have something very special.