Plasma\LCD = a step back in technology?

ferret face · 28 Dec 2007 at 11:52

Hi guys,

Please bare with me but I have been looking at buying a new flat screen TV to replace my 29inch Sony CRT Trinitron and I have got to say I am very underwhelmed.

Ok the flat panels are good at displaying HD signals but when it comes down to standard cable TV they are nowhere near as good as my current TV. Pictures seem blocky and there is motion blur too.

Do you think that flat panels will ever be able to display SD signals as good as my Sony? Because if they dont then I'm sticking with my trusty old CRT until it dies and goes to TV heaven.

Ferret

Fr0dders · 28 Dec 2007 at 12:10

you're basing your experience upon viewing poor quality RF signals boosted to be displayed in shop windows

This is now standard definiton looks when put through a quality scart connection.

They are taken with a point and shoot camera, and shot in the dark at that, so they arent the best photos

but SD looks pin sharp providing you dont watch it from 6 inches away. no blockyness, and no motion blur either.

[DOD]Asprilla · 28 Dec 2007 at 12:12

Flat panels are getting closer, but they are not quite there yet, in my opinion.

One of the major issues with doing this kind of comparison is the set-up requirements of flat panels compared to CRT screens. Most panels you see in stores are set up to catch your eye, not to actually display a decent image.

I must admit that I've spent two years looking for a panel to replace my Trinitron CRT and I've only just found it.

It's also worth noting that CRT screens have their own faults, but we are so used to them that we tend to not notice.

badbob · 28 Dec 2007 at 12:15

Hardly best place to get a demo. When connecting my Samsung M86 downstairs for the DTV update I tuned into digital channels, and suprised how good the picture is.

The problem with SD isn't the resolution, it's the compression. Compare a highly compressed divx and a high bitrate DVD-Video, of the same resolution. CRT hides the compression artefacts.

ferret face · 28 Dec 2007 at 12:49

ok cheers guys, you have got me interested again and perhaps I need to revisit LCD/plasma screens.

MrLOL that picture looks good, can I ask what Tv you have ?

Asprilla, do you mind telling me what TV you are considering swapping your CRT for pls?

Cheers Ferret

Fr0dders · 28 Dec 2007 at 13:31

ive got a Samsung LE40 F86

the problem with "revisiting" them as such, is most pople tend to look at them in store. They have terrible settings and are usually fed a poor quality source

You're best bet is to do 1 of 2 things with regards setup. Pay a professional to properly calibrate the set. Then use those settings as a base to tweak to your own liking

Or 2 buy a Sony W3000 / Sony X3500 / Samsung F86 / Samsung M86/m87 which have settings available from a HD enthusiast site. They have one of the professional colour meters and have published the settings used to get 96 % accurate colour reproduction.

i would consider the above 4 LCDs to be among the best on the market, with the sonys being a little better but at much higher cost.

ferret face · 28 Dec 2007 at 13:52

thanks for the info MrLOL, I'll have a look at them screens

Ferret

badbob · 28 Dec 2007 at 14:01

Or 2 buy a Sony W3000 / Sony X3500 / Samsung F86 / Samsung M86/m87 which have settings available from a HD enthusiast site. They have one of the professional colour meters and have published the settings used to get 96 % accurate colour reproduction

Other people's settings have zero relevence to your screen, due to different boards and panels. I tried the M86 settings, and way way too yellow/warm, white's aren't white. Even if mine is accurate (say exactly the same as the calibrated set) no way is yellowish whites accurate to real life.

For most LCD's, the standard procedure is to disable any picture processing (dynamic contrast, auto contrast, movie plus, active colour, 100hz etc and other things) , reduce sharpness by a fair amount and reduce colour a little- usually that's enough to get a more pleasing image.

[DOD]Asprilla · 28 Dec 2007 at 14:31

ferret face said:
Asprilla, do you mind telling me what TV you are considering swapping your CRT for pls?

Yesterday I've received a Pioneer PDP428XD plasma.

It's expensive compared to a lot of other models that I've looked at (on a par with the Sony X3500 LCD in price) but it's the first screen I've seen that didn't feel like a retrograde step in picture quality from a CRT for SD material.

I know that there are a lot of other screens that are 'nearly' as good which are much cheaper but for me that 5 - 10% improvement was well worth the extra money.

ferret face · 28 Dec 2007 at 16:06

Asprilla that is one nice Tv!

/\/\j17 · 28 Dec 2007 at 16:47

The thing to remember is that CRT's have had 90 years of R&D put in to them and you can by a top-of-the-range CRT of (comparative) peanuts, as most of that money was spent a few years ago and is more or less free now.

Plasmas and LCDs are spring chickens (50 years for plasma, 30 years for LCD) and most of the real money has been spent in the last 5-10 years/is being spent now - so you get charged more for a less developed solution.

The best plasmas (and to a lesser extent LCD) kit has more or less caught up with CRT, but you pay the price. Some of the flat panel kit at the other end of the market/price range is really quite shocking.

At the moment top dollar plasmas match CRTs - but cost limbs and you know the price will drop every time you blink after buying.

Top dollar LCDs run a very close second though bright-and-black is still an issue (hard to find something that doesn't wash out it's blacks to greys when you turn the brightness up to the point to can see what's going on). Top sets aren't too bad, but cost you a couple more limbs.

In the mid-price bracket you get reasonably plasmas and a mixed bag of LCDs.

At the bottom end of the market you only get LCDs (you just can't make a cheap plasma worth looking at - the manufacturing costs are just too high). No matter how many sticks you have, none of them can hold one against a CRT - let alone shake it.

Tax Evader · 28 Dec 2007 at 16:50

My Pioneer LX508D is better than my old Pana 36" CRT for SD, but it does take some 'setting up' to get right. Loads of settings & options which have dramatic impacts on the visuals!

[DOD]Asprilla · 28 Dec 2007 at 18:05

Tax Evader said:
My Pioneer LX508D is better than my old Pana 36" CRT for SD, but it does take some 'setting up' to get right. Loads of settings & options which have dramatic impacts on the visuals!

I'll second that!

Raider · 28 Dec 2007 at 18:41

The newer plasmas beat CRTs when set up correctly for SD signals now (imo as usual). It's taken a while, but we're finally getting there, just as SD is on its way out

Warbie · 28 Dec 2007 at 18:57

I've yet to see an lcd or plasma that matches a decent crt for sd.

Fr0dders · 29 Dec 2007 at 19:59

Warbie said:
I've yet to see an lcd or plasma that matches a decent crt for sd.

have you owned one ?

in which case you've probably only seen ones in shops or your mates

and unless you've got any AV Enthusiast mates who've spent hours finding the best settings then its no wonder you've not seen one

Warbie · 29 Dec 2007 at 20:29

I've owned a few Panasonic plasma (the last was a 42PX600) and various lcds. The plasma screens weren't bad with standard definition, and were considerably better than the lcds, but not a patch on my old Toshiba or Sony crts.

James07 · 29 Dec 2007 at 23:36

I never have any problems with mine...

Its awsome on my Xbox 360, Watching DVD's Watching TV, its perfect..

26" HD LCD.

Dangerous Dave · 30 Dec 2007 at 13:20

I've got a critical eye to picture quality and have to say a properly set up LCD/Plasma can match a good CRT with SD pictures. I have had friends come in and ask is that a HD picture when its showing a SD freeview broadcast.