HDMI compliance standards question

[Wryel]

Ok, so we bought a VGA-HDMI converter (VGA port died and we need PC input), however it doesn't work. I tried every combination of resolutions and refresh rates but nothing. I managed to get a really low resolution (800x600 I think) on one other TV but nothing worth using. I wanted to return it but the company we bought it from said it had been opened and we'd have to pay something stupid like a 50% restocking fee

I then looked for some support on the manfacturers' website and the only thing they could come up with was:

'It sounds rather like an incompatibility on the HDMI end. The VGAHD2HDMI is HDMI 1.0 compliant, while the TV's you're using may require a higher version support'

I thought these standards were backwards compatible?? Is this guy talking ****?

The box is from 'Startech' and is the VGA2HDMI if it makes a difference. I'm guessing it's just luck of the draw as to whether or not these things work but if they don't one would expect refund surely?

 

[lucid]

From my limited knowledge I think you are dealing with two bits of Law:

The first is the Distance Selling Regulations (DSR). This is where you (the consumer) has the right to change your mind and return the goods to the retailer within 7 days so long as they are still sealed and you pay the carriage and transaction charges.

The second is the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA). This covers goods performing to a standard, not being defective etc etc.


Once you have opened the goods then, IMO, you can forget about any rights and obligations under DSR rules. More importantly, the retailer can't use DSR to insist that the goods have to be sealed because you are now governed by is the SOGA rules instead.

Incidentally, restocking fees and rates have to be disclosed in the written T's & C's made available to you prior to the sale. If not, then they can't be charged. This might be on the retailer's web site. Have a look. Further more, restocking fees can't be used as a money making exercise by the retailer. They should only reflect the reasonable costs incurred in the processing of returned goods.

Now, the tricky thing is deciding where responsibility lies under the SOGA rules. Did you buy something without really understanding how it works, or was it sold as "idiot proof" but then later some issues came to light. Has something changed that the retailer couldn't be reasonably expected to know of?... This is particularly relevant with HDMI devices because the chip sets get updated without you knowing.

Check your TV manual and the information to do with the PC's HDMI output. Try to determine if the PC's VGA output can send a signal that the TV's HDMI input would be happy with. e.g. 720p/60 over VGA.

Once you have established in theory that the signals are compatible then have a look at the SOGA rules to see how you are covered.

Hope that's of some help

 

[Demon]

TV's will expect one of the standard HDMI resolutions,
1280 x 720 @ 50/60hz
1920 x 1080 @ 50/60hz
So that's the first step to try., I'd stick with the 1280 x 720 for testing, set your PC to that, and see what happens, if your pc has 2 vga outputs and you want to use both, it will need more setting up.

On the subject of vga to hdmi, since vga is an analogue signal and hdmi is digital, I assume its some kind of box, as the vga signal would need digitizing and then sent to the hdmi. I've seem people advertise vga to hdmi leads, but I can't see how these could work.

Surely the converter has instructions saying what resolutions it supports?

You can buy DVI to hdmi leads cheaply, since hdmi video and dvi are the same standard, and obviously digital, so just a lead is required...

 

[~Divine~Wind~]

...snip...
The first is the Distance Selling Regulations (DSR). This is where you (the consumer) has the right to change your mind and return the goods to the retailer within 7 days so long as they are still sealed and you pay the carriage and transaction charges.

You have to NOTIFY the seller that you are returning the item under DSR within 7 days. You then have a "reasonable amount of time" to return the item.

Items DO NOT have to remain sealed the point of the DSR is so you can inspect the item as you would in a store.

A Seller cannot decline your DSR return.

The second is the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA). This covers goods performing to a standard, not being defective etc etc.

~Works as intended / Works for advertised use
Acceptable life span
among others

Once you have opened the goods then, IMO, you can forget about any rights and obligations under DSR rules. More importantly, the retailer can't use DSR to insist that the goods have to be sealed because you are now governed by is the SOGA rules instead.

Incorrect

Incidentally, restocking fees and rates have to be disclosed in the written T's & C's made available to you prior to the sale. If not, then they can't be charged. This might be on the retailer's web site. Have a look. Further more, restocking fees can't be used as a money making exercise by the retailer. They should only reflect the reasonable costs incurred in the processing of returned goods.

Not 100% on this but stores can put whetever they like in their own T+Cs they cannot remove anything from your statutory rights. I'd need to double check the whole restocking fee thing to be able to comment fully.

Now, the tricky thing is deciding where responsibility lies under the SOGA rules. Did you buy something without really understanding how it works, or was it sold as "idiot proof" but then later some issues came to light. Has something changed that the retailer couldn't be reasonably expected to know of?... This is particularly relevant with HDMI devices because the chip sets get updated without you knowing.

DSR stands for the initial 7 days AFTER receipt of goods, you have these 7 days to inspect the item. After that for any issues you will have to rely on the SoGa. Within 6 months the onus is on the supplier to prove that the fault was not inherent or apparant when sold. After 6 months iirc it's upto you to prove the fault was there when bought. the whole life span situation can get a little fiddly but normally the higher the price the longer you would expect iot to last.

Check your TV manual and the information to do with the PC's HDMI output. Try to determine if the PC's VGA output can send a signal that the TV's HDMI input would be happy with. e.g. 720p/60 over VGA.

As above, you will need to check the display types supported to be 100% sure

 

[lord filbuster]

Not 100% on this but stores can put whetever they like in their own T+Cs they cannot remove anything from your statutory rights. I'd need to double check the whole restocking fee thing to be able to comment fully.

Retailers cannot charge a restocking fee at all.

 

[Wryel]

Thanks guys,

Now, the tricky thing is deciding where responsibility lies under the SOGA rules. Did you buy something without really understanding how it works, or was it sold as "idiot proof"

TV's will expect one of the standard HDMI resolutions,
1280 x 720 @ 50/60hz
1920 x 1080 @ 50/60hz
So that's the first step to try., I'd stick with the 1280 x 720 for testing, set your PC to that, and see what happens, if your pc has 2 vga outputs and you want to use both, it will need more setting up.

On the subject of vga to hdmi, since vga is an analogue signal and hdmi is digital, I assume its some kind of box

- It's pretty idiot proof, it's just a box with input and output connectors and a red light. The only switch is for RGB/YPbPr. It's pretty much the Holly Hop drive.
- I've tried every resolution (and refresh rate) I could think of, including HD ones. The TV works fine on 1280x1024 through HDMI-HDMI (as well as HD resolutions .

Edit: They are taking the box back as faulty now after I contacted the manufacturer again. I'm willing to bet the replacement will do the same though!

 

[lucid]

The thing about HDMI is that it can work fine today, but plug in a new device and it screws everything else up. I had this happen with a customer's install after they plugged in a new laptop with HDMI out. There's stuff happening out of reach in firmware that is very flaky. Most retailers and a scarily high number of manufacturers just haven't got a clue what's going on inside...

H D M I - Hardly Developed Mostly Intermittent ... lol