An Independent Scotland?

Caporegime
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Some interesting figures there which ought to make people at least question the prevailing notion of a subsidised Scotland. Most people seem to accept as fact that Scotland is an economic burden - after all, the London newspapers have decreed it.

Who can say with any certainty where Scotland will end up or which particular settlement would be the most beneficial? I can't, so I'm content to leave these questions in the capable hands of the Scottish people.

I'd have been more surprised if Scotland wasn't in a stronger fiscal position than the UK as a whole, given the recent problems in the housing/financial sectors. Seems a bit of a sensationalist/nonsense headline to me.

Whilst the question of whether or not Scotland is financially strong enough to survive on its own is of course an important one, the trouble digging through the statistics is that there are question marks over both sets of "proof". Scotlands deficit strength may be better than the UK as a whole, but does that help them in the case of independence, given that they would be taking on a lot more debt and fiscal responsibility?

I think independence for Scotland is more an emotive subject that the Scottish people obviously feel they have a right to, fair enough. But in terms of being good for Scotland? I'm not so sure. Devolution, yes because Scotland has only to gain at the UKs expense.
 
Soldato
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Location: Glasgow. Why am I not surprised you agree with Eddie? Sure lets sugar coat it because it's always the English being racist.

Sugar coat what? On the forums anti-Scotland posts are far more regular than anti-England posts.

In the real world that might well change, but I was talking specifically about these forums.
 
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I'd have been more surprised if Scotland wasn't in a stronger fiscal position than the UK as a whole, given the recent problems in the housing/financial sectors. Seems a bit of a sensationalist/nonsense headline to me.

Whilst the question of whether or not Scotland is financially strong enough to survive on its own is of course an important one, the trouble digging through the statistics is that there are question marks over both sets of "proof". Scotlands deficit strength may be better than the UK as a whole, but does that help them in the case of independence, given that they would be taking on a lot more debt and fiscal responsibility?

I think independence for Scotland is more an emotive subject that the Scottish people obviously feel they have a right to, fair enough. But in terms of being good for Scotland? I'm not so sure. Devolution, yes because Scotland has only to gain at the UKs expense.

You're right about the figures not being absolute or free from imperfections. It would have been just as easy (probably easier) to find a contradictory article. It just doesn't help the debate when people make bold assertions for which the evidence is lacking and then shout down dissenting voices.

Regarding the emotive aspect of the debate, the poorly concealed indignation directed by some at Scotland for merely contemplating these issues is rather bemusing. If there was an equivalent public debate taking place in England, I wouldn't resent that happening and I wouldn't feel the need to create a troll thread on Overclockers Forums about it either. It's like they consider it to be a personal rejection or something.
 
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I guess the support in Aberdeen has a lot to do with the fact that it's where the majority of UK oil is landed, and one of the few areas of the UK that actually understands the scale of our oil industry (as opposed to those further south, who seem to think that our economy magically functions off the back of a broken, crippled financial sector).

I saw an article in The Guardian the other day that said the majority of Scots are opposed to independence when asked whether they want to be a fully independent nation or not. However, when they changed the question to one of independence, maximum devolution or the status quo, max devolution had quite a large lead, pulling significant numbers from both of the other options. I can't remember who ran the polls, but it's interesting to see that despite all of this talk of independence or no independence, there's a third option that currently has the most support.



Oh, the horror! Imagine naming a black dog Niger (the Latin word for the colour 'black'). How incredibly racist.

The name isn't racist, it just reveals the racist subconscious of the idiots who see a dog called Niger and assume it's some anti-black sentiment or some crude joke about the role of black people in society. Grow up.



Look I actually agree with on the whole Dambusters thing, I studied elementary Latin for a few years so am well aware of the origins. I merely use it as an example of what is considered 'racist' in modern society. It's also topical as they're currently remaking the movie with the offending name being the first thing being purged from the script - there was even an article directly referencing it in the paper somewhere recently which is why it's on my mind. Either way, it certainly doesn't warrant your somewhat hostile response.

My assertion that Braveheart is rascist is in the modern interpretation of the word - there's no denying that at best it is utterly one sided and blinkered with a willfully negative portrayal of the English. Were it any other nation but the English I'm sure there'd have been a lot more fuss made of it.

To be honest I think it also insults the Scots as presenting them as a simple warrior race, when in reality Scots have always been highly resourceful and intelligent.

Anyway, was Longshanks a tyrant? Possibly, but is anyone who wishes to expand a territory a tyrant? It's the nature of man to conquer and there were Scottish invasions of Northern England too.

The point I'm making is that the battles are all entirely in the long distant past and have been largely dredged up in the modern age by a bat**** crazy Aussie who we all know has issues with certain cultures and races.

There's also the matter of that slimy looking Salmond who gains my vote for the most untrustworthy looking politician in British politics; he clearly has an agenda way beyond a 'free' Scotland.

Anyway, on the subject of politics, might I remind people that we had an non elected Scotsman as our previous Prime Minister.

Regardless, this is more than I can be bothered to say on the matter. If they want to go let them go, then let them go, but I for one would be sorry to see them go.



.
 
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Soldato
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The point I'm making is that the battles are all entirely in the long distant past and have been largely dredged up in the modern age by a bat**** crazy Aussie who we all know has issues with certain cultures and races.

Yeah, the sooner we forget about our past conflicts and look to the great partnership we have forged (one of the most successful this planet has seen, surely?) the better. I have nothing against the Scots and would love to move there when I'm stinking rich.

I totally agree about Mel Gibson, too.
 
Soldato
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I think it's time to split the two countries, what do you think, what does scotland offer, unemployment and NHS drug abuse costs and of course North sea oil, which is disputed anyway as to where the boundaries lie. It would be nice to see England as it's own country for once, maybe make it more Americanised but not be influenced by the alcholic north? Thoughts?

I was born and raised in Scotland, when I came down here, I was stuck into a secondary school with people a year older than me because the system down here is 'slower'. no one said, thank you or please. Kids would go crying to their mum the moment you retaliated to bullying. Overall, the general population of schools down here are thick, in the politest term.

Your original post just proved my point so I have no need to source anything to back my claim...

ags
English ****
 
Caporegime
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You're right about the figures not being absolute or free from imperfections. It would have been just as easy (probably easier) to find a contradictory article. It just doesn't help the debate when people make bold assertions for which the evidence is lacking and then shout down dissenting voices.

Regarding the emotive aspect of the debate, the poorly concealed indignation directed by some at Scotland for merely contemplating these issues is rather bemusing. If there was an equivalent public debate taking place in England, I wouldn't resent that happening and I wouldn't feel the need to create a troll thread on Overclockers Forums about it either. It's like they consider it to be a personal rejection or something.
Well its just because its partly an emotive debate isn't it? Isn't part of Scottish independence exactly about rejection of the UK, England being a part of it?
 
Soldato
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I was born and raised in Scotland, when I came down here, I was stuck into a secondary school with people a year older than me because the system down here is 'slower'. no one said, thank you or please. Kids would go crying to their mum the moment you retaliated to bullying. Overall, the general population of schools down here are thick, in the politest term.

Your original post just proved my point so I have no need to source anything to back my claim...

ags
English ****


You make almost as many assumptions as the guy you're quoting, you realise that, right?
 
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Well its just because its partly an emotive debate isn't it? Isn't part of Scottish independence exactly about rejection of the UK, England being a part of it?

That's a slightly pejorative way of framing the issue. England and Scotland will always be interdependent to a certain degree, but where interests diverge it's perfectly legitimate to seek a better arrangement. That could potentially be a very positive process for both countries if it weren't for our politicians and media who seem determined turn it into a huge squabble.
 
Caporegime
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That's a slightly pejorative way of framing the issue. England and Scotland will always be interdependent to a certain degree, but where interests diverge it's perfectly legitimate to seek a better arrangement. That could potentially be a very positive process for both countries if it weren't for our politicians and media who seem determined turn it into a huge squabble.

No I realise that, I was just highlighting why some people might take it personally.
 
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At the end of the day it all depends on what the majority votes for when the referendum comes. I'm still undecided but I must admit I'm starting to look more favourably on independence since the Tories got into power :p.
Love Scotland and couldn't imagine living anywhere else :).
 
Soldato
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I think it's time to split the two countries, what do you think, what does scotland offer, unemployment and NHS drug abuse costs and of course North sea oil, which is disputed anyway as to where the boundaries lie. It would be nice to see England as it's own country for once, maybe make it more Americanised but not be influenced by the alcholic north? Thoughts?

What a complete load of rubbish.


My opinion: Mainly due to the exporting of money over Hadrian's wall; Scotland should either go back to being the UK with parliament in London only, or should be financially separate.

What about the oil you say... Scotland would take the north sea oil but not benefit from the Falklands oil.

The reality is the current broken system shall remain.
 
Caporegime
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I was born and raised in Scotland, when I came down here, I was stuck into a secondary school with people a year older than me because the system down here is 'slower'. no one said, thank you or please. Kids would go crying to their mum the moment you retaliated to bullying. Overall, the general population of schools down here are thick, in the politest term.

Your original post just proved my point so I have no need to source anything to back my claim...

ags
English ****

my kids in some naughty group at school and isnt alowed out at playtme because of bullies..

its a primary school he was beeing bullied a lot because hes a bit chubby some kid punched him so he finally had enough and battered the other kid , the other kids friend came along so he battered him aswell ..

its my kid whos usually well behaved that got punished the bullies get to act as always because its who they are english schools are a joke in scotland he would probably have been given a reward :mad:
 
Soldato
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its my kid whos usually well behaved that got punished the bullies get to act as always because its who they are english schools are a joke in scotland he would probably have been given a reward :mad:

I think your opinion on Scottish schools might be a teeny weeny bit wrong. Battering other people is still frowned upon here.

In that situation you've just got to hope the head teacher can see the truth.
 
Caporegime
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she doesnt give a crap about anything but offsted reports.. probably easier to reward kids for bad behaviour and punish the ones that lash out after beeing bullied over a period of time.
 
Soldato
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Arknor.

I really wish you would not spout a personal experience as a nation's flaw.

Each school is individually managed, it's not the country's fault: that an experience that your son had was negative.
 
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