Virtual Pool 4 (15th August)

Soldato
Joined
31 May 2005
Posts
15,600
Location
Nottingham
BUYER BEWARE.

The DRM used in VP3DL was dreadful.

Want to install onto a desktop and a notebook or just 2 computers in your house?

Forget it. It has a "phone home" DRM which reactivates itself each time it is ran from a different computer than the last time it was used.

Do this more than 6 times per YEAR and you need to contact them to authorise a new key, which they are not obliged to do. Very inconvenient and impractical for the 21st century. That is the sort of this you had back in the nineties.

I asked them about this DRM relating to VP4 and they informed me they using the same DRM which is disappointing.

http://www.celeris.com/celeris_game_support_vp3_win-resistration.html

Can I transfer my registration to another computer?
Yes, you can use your copy of Virtual Pool 3 DL on any single computer you own. You may transfer 6 times per year on your own. When you transfer, we will email you your new serial number. Then, use your new serial number to re-register Virtual Pool 3 DL on your new computer.

Let them know your thoughts if you like the game but think the DRM stinks:

[email protected]
 
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Soldato
Joined
4 Jul 2012
Posts
16,911
Those graphics look pretty bad. Hustle Kings on the PS Vita looks a lot nicer. I know it's not all about graphics, but they really are bad.
 
Associate
Joined
3 Jul 2012
Posts
359
Yeah, I'm thinking this should be called Virtual Pool 3 HD, rather than 4. Also all they have to do with the snooker mode is add the miss rule, it is otherwise already perfect.
 
Caporegime
Joined
17 Feb 2006
Posts
29,263
Location
Cornwall
BUYER BEWARE.

The DRM used in VP3DL was dreadful.

Want to install onto a desktop and a notebook or just 2 computers in your house?

Forget it. It has a "phone home" DRM which reactivates itself each time it is ran from a different computer than the last time it was used.

Do this more than 6 times per YEAR and you need to contact them to authorise a new key, which they are not obliged to do. Very inconvenient and impractical for the 21st century. That is the sort of this you had back in the nineties.

I asked them about this DRM relating to VP4 and they informed me they using the same DRM which is disappointing.

http://www.celeris.com/celeris_game_support_vp3_win-resistration.html



Let them know your thoughts if you like the game but think the DRM stinks:

[email protected]

It's simpler just to torrent it. Honestly, if they use a DRM like that, then they deserve everything they get.

Myself, personally, I'd simply choose not to play it. But I wouldn't advise anyone to purchase a game with such stupid DRM.
 
Associate
Joined
3 Nov 2005
Posts
611
Wasn't on my radar and it's tempting but that DRM is putting me off as well. Seems like its been a nice update but nearly £25 hmm not sure.
 
Soldato
Joined
2 Dec 2008
Posts
3,806
Location
Heaven and Earth Temple
Do this more than 6 times per YEAR and you need to contact them to authorise a new key, which they are not obliged to do. Very inconvenient and impractical for the 21st century. That is the sort of this you had back in the nineties.

Well looks like I wasn't wrong with how the trailer for the game takes me back the nineties, but the DRM too! Jesus! :eek:
 
Soldato
Joined
31 May 2005
Posts
15,600
Location
Nottingham
I have just had the following email discussion with them:

I sent:

Hi.

I purchased VP3DL a few years ago and had problems with activations as I have 2 PC's in my house and played the game on both.

Your reply was that I purchased a second licence which seemed unfair so I never bothered.

Does VP4 utilise the same DRM or will it make it easier to install/play on 2 computers in the same house.

Regards

They replied:

James,

You must have purchased VP3 DL under different email addresses since the one you used here only brings up one game. Sorry, but I don't have links to your past emails from this email address, so I'm not linked to previous emails. I don't know how to respond to your message of being unfair. If you could send me those emails or an explanation, I could figure out what happened. Don't know what 'DRM' refers to. I need to be able to see both of your games to advise you what to do. I can tell you that if you have two games, you have to play them on two different computers, but if your two games have been mixed up, it gets just a little more complicated.

Customer Support
Celeris, Inc.

I replied:

Hi.

I have a single VP3DL license which I purchased using this email address via your website which was processed by Digital River.

My problem is that I have 2 computers in my house, a main PC and one in my office.

Owing to your DRM (Digital rights management) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management#Computer_games Although I could install the game on two different computers, each time I played on the alternate computer I had to reactivate and it would prompt for a new serial key which I had to request.

This process was whole heartedly unfair and inconvenient considering I had spent good money purchasing your product.

Your response at the time was "Tough" and suggested that I should purchase "ANOTHER License". I was done with your product at that point and simply gave up owing to this terrible customer service.

Some readers on my blog have asked me if VP4 will feature the same restrictions or if the DRM has been bought into the 21st century so it can be installed on multiple computers as they and I do not want to spend more money on something they cannot use.

In this day and age, it is not unreasonable to want to install a game onto a desktop and a notebook for example.

If I am purchasing a license, I expect to at least to be able to play the game on any computer I own, this is fair.

Regards.

They replied:

James,

I will attempt to respond to all of your questions/issues listed below. I have numbered the paragraphs for reference sake.

1) The reason I thought you had 2 games was because you said you played the game on both, which you could not do unless you transferred the game back and forth. So it was not clear to me. I have your records for this email address for one game.
2) We have no way of knowing how many computers you have. We only know when you download the game.
3) Yes, our DRM is that the game is registered to one computer at a time. However, our transfer policy is as follows:

Your VP3DL serial number will automatically transfer to your new system. Just install VP3DL and when you start up it will say: "The software is already registered on another computer. You may transfer the software registration to another computer. This will invalidate the registration on your old computer". Answer Yes, Proceed with Transfer. Your serial will now be registered on the new system. To get any saved games files and Careers on your old system copy from the VP3 installed directory: "players.sts" , the vpc data: directory, and the vpfiles\user directory. You should uninstall the program on your old computer so you don't get a license conflict.

If you download the game more than 6 times per year, it would require you to contact us for a serial number. It's a policy of ours.

4) If you are only referring to your 3rd paragraph, see the above policy. If you are referring to our DRM policy, see comments to paragraphs 6 and 7 below.
5) I looked at our records of our correspondences with you and could not find any that said 'Tough' nor did I find one that suggested you purchase ANOTHER license', although I would have suggested that you purchase another game if you didn't want to transfer the game back and forth. I might also have told you that DRM policy was one game per computer, but if someone told you 'Tough' I really need like to see that email. It is NOT our policy to speak to our customers in that manner.
6) The DRM policy for Virtual Pool 4 will not change. Since you pointed me to the Wikipedia site, I would suggest to you that we are not the only company with this kind of policy and I will give you a quote from them:

'DRM is any technology that inhibits uses of digital content that are not desired or intended by the content provider. DRM also includes specific instances of digital works or devices. Companies such as Amazon, AT&T, AOL, Apple Inc., BBC, Microsoft, Electronic Arts and Sony use digital rights management.'

7) I hear what you are saying though and I totally agree that you should be able to use the game on your own devices. However, we spent a great deal of time (2 1/2 year for Virtual Pool 4) and money to develop this game, and frankly, we didn't do it out the goodness of our hearts. We did it because we thought it was an excellent game, of the highest quality, the most realistic online pool game available on the market, fun to play, and, yes, we wanted to get our investment back with a profit since we are a business.

We have no way of knowing on which computer your game is installed, much less if you have other computers. We only know when you download or transfer the game, not to where, nor whom. If you can you tell me how we would be able to monitor the people who bought the game and would only use it on their own devices from the ones who would buy one copy, make X-number of other copies and sell those for a profit, I would truly appreciate it. I recognize there are legitimate complaints about not being able to use the game on multiple devices, but I don't know how to sort out the legitimate people from the illegitimate pirates. Ergo, one license per device.

While I understand that DRM is very controversial, I can see you side, but I can also see ours. My understanding of your side of this is that it doesn't prevent copyright infringement and from what you've said here, you feel that it is unfair and inconvenient, and if you posted a blog as such you would find others who feel the same way you do.

I hope I've addressed all of your questions/issues. Please let me know if there is anything further.

Customer Support
Celeris, Inc.

I replied:

Hi.

Many thanks for your detailed reply.

The following is constructive so please do not think it is anything otherwise.

I believe you as a company are missing the point entirely.

The only people who are inconvenienced by your chosen method of DRM are legitimate customers.

Those who play unlicensed versions, can do so on as many computers as they wish without any hassle or inconvenience. It is not like it is difficult to come by. I made the mistake of purchasing via the "correct" channel and look what I got.

Those who have paid however are severely inconvenienced.

You mention that you are not the only company who uses DRM? Your point is?

Many companies utilise DRM, does it mean they are justified or correct in their implementation, no it does not.

DRM is not the problem, it is the way you have chosen to implement it which is cause for concern.

As a point, you mention Microsoft. If I purchase Microsoft Office, how many computers do you believe I can install it onto? More than one for sure.

The people who have legitimately supported your company and purchased your software, are stuck. Those who have chosen not to support your company and obtain your software by other means, are they equally inconvenienced? No, of course not, they are are completely unhindered.

In the long term, all this policy does is encourage "potential" customers to look elsewhere.

Would it affect your bottom line as a business that much if you were to implement an alternate DRM system which allows a "customer" to install your product simultaneously onto two different computers? Is the system that archaic that it only allows one activation at a time? Why not two?

You could even go as far as issuing a second key in some circumstances if a customer mentions they are in a similiar position to myself. You have the money from that customer, they are not going to pay again for the same product. Likewise, a legit customer is not likely to give the key to a friend if they have gone to the effort of contacting you to inform you of a problem they are having with their purchase.

we spent a great deal of time (2 1/2 year for Virtual Pool 4) and money to develop this game, and frankly, we didn't do it out the goodness of our hearts. We did it because we thought it was an excellent game, of the highest quality, the most realistic online pool game available on the market, fun to play, and, yes, we wanted to get our investment back with a profit since we are a business.

At the expense of forcing customers to purchase the same game twice to install onto two different computers they own?

Such an investment is short sighted if you are unable to see the bigger picture as being frank, more people are likely to source the software via "alternate" means if purchasing it legitimately is too much hassle.

You will decide your own path as a company although personally, I feel you are just hurting your long term sales with such a strategy and it is down to either ignorance or incompetence that you have not looked to change a system which is obviously flawed in the 21st century.

Kind Regards.

They replied with the following:

James,

Thank you for feedback.

Customer Support
Celeris, Inc.
 
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Soldato
Joined
18 Jan 2004
Posts
9,305
Location
Sunny Scotland
What on earth, that is some primitive DRM they got going on. They could have easily implemented many different types that allow them some DRM protection while allowing multiple installs to different devices as said before they sound like they are a 90s company stuck in the 90s
 
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