4 Macbook Pro questions.

[86JR]

I am getting ready to sell my PC and monitor and buy a Macbook Pro possibly.

I do a lot of writing now believe it or not and I quite like the idea of doing so on an Apple. I do have some questions.

1. 13" Air vs MBP - which to buy? I quite like the lightweight appeal of the Air but when specced up it is not cheaper than a 13" MBP. All it is going to be used for is web browsing and work, Wordpress, and writing/typing. Nothing heavy. I am actually thinking of getting a Mac Mini also to use as a server/for my DVI monitor (Asus 27").

2. If I buy the latest 13" MBP with Retina, can I upgrade to 16GB of ram myself or do I HAVE TO opt for the £240 upgrade on the Apple Store?

3. Same question above for the 13" Air.

4. I noticed the keyboard is more compact than I am used to, the left side was fine but the right side, pressing O I was pressing -, and pressing backspace I was pressing =. Will I just get used to this or is it a problem?

Thank You.

 

[hughtrimble]

I just went to a 13inch rMBP (2.6Ghz i5/8GB RAM/256GB SSD) at the start of the year, and it's a lovely bit of kit (at least in terms of usability and quality 'feel' compared to my old 17.3inch HP monstrosity!).

1. I went with the rMBP primarily because of the extra 'oomph' compared to the Air. The reduced connections on the Air was also something that I thought may be irritating in future. My main reason was the screen though - the rMBP is gorgeous to look at (I am no power user).

2. I asked this at the time, and apparently the RAM is soldered onto the mobo so you cannot replace it yourself. Whether that's referring to the average user or a categorical 'No' to anyone I don't know. The general consensus seems to be that you ought to go with the factory 16GB if you think you'll need it in the future (but that is rather dependent on the above.)

3. Not sure. I was led to believe the RAM was only soldered on the rMBP models, but I (they) could be wrong.

4. Only you can say - I've had no issues, but this may be a more personal thing.

If you're in education (teacher/student etc.) you get a nice little discount too.

 

[shiver]

The RAM is soldered to the board on MacBook Airs and rMBP.

I'd always recommend maxing it at factory for this reason.

I have the top spec 13" rMBP Late 2013, everything maxed but SSD (512GB) and it's brilliant on power and battery life.

 

[StevenG]

As above really,

1, i went for rMBP, higher spec, plus higher res screen on scaled. 1650x1050 vs 1440x900. I went for the mid spec ready to ship option with 2.4/8gb/256gb

2, soldered, upgrade at point of order.

3, soldered

4, the keyboard on the rMBP is nice to use i dont find any issues after using it for a while.

 

[Fallen god]

1) Went with rMBP, it is still crazy light (1.5kg) so much so that I sometimes think I left it at home/work since my bag is just too light. Also get a retina screen which is lovely, more ports, and not much more in terms of cost

2) Nope, but your workflow is less then mine, I do web development with me, I run 2 VMs, Photoshop, IDEs/Browsers/iPad+iPhone emulators (sometimes) and I never have any real issues with 8GB of Ram.

3) Nope

4) I had a similar experience, I came from a 15" windows laptop and the keyboard was a chore at first, now I'm well adapted, it took maybe 1 month to get used too it.

 

[shiver]

The only thing that would make the 13" rMBP better for me would be Iris Pro graphics but since I have a desktop for anything that'd need more than the Iris graphics it's not much of a big deal.

Other than that it's pretty much ideal for me

 

[hughtrimble]

1) Went with rMBP, it is still crazy light (1.5kg) so much so that I sometimes think I left it at home/work since my bag is just too light. Also get a retina screen which is lovely, more ports, and not much more in terms of cost

...

Same - it's wonderful that it's so light, but I do find myself checking that it is actually in my bag more often than with heavier ones. But I can take that!

 

[lamboman]

Going to offer a slightly different perspective having used both.

Have used both a current generation 13" rMBP and MBA (mine) side by side for similar tasks, here are some observations:

• Running the display at scaled resolutions on the rMBP results in slight blurriness that may or may not affect you. For me it was rather annoying, but turning off font smoothing sorted made a big improvement. The MBA of course is more "blocky", but the rMBP was "hazy". For the most part this is a case of compromise, as the rMBP does offer superior viewing angles and colour reproduction. Running Windows VMs will result in some elements being blurry and others not, but this is a problem with Windows, not the machine. Not many have complained or noticed, so to be honest I'd say this isn't an issue for most.
• Found that running VMs on both my MBA and the rMBP side-by-side, the rMBP was noisier and warmer. However, the guys above haven't complained, so I'm presuming this isn't really an issue. Battery life on the rMBP was worse, but unless you need extreme longevity this isn't really an issue.
• UI lag on the rMBP was frustrating. It just wasn't as fluid as my machine, and if you use such OS X features frequently, it really dampens the user experience. It just felt more sluggish the majority of the time (this was a completely fresh install on a brand new machine, so there weren't any background processes utilising system resources abnormally).
• People always comment on the rMBP being more powerful, but in reality this isn't the case. The i7 MBA and i5 rMBP are virtually identical. Superior graphics performance on the rMBP but aside from that not much in it. If you're looking at a powerful machine, you should be looking at a 15" rMBP instead frankly.
• Air is nicer to type on due to the taper, while the rMBP is more meaty and feels nicer to carry around. The lack of weight with the MBA is disconcerting, as I always worry whether it is still in my bag. People comment on there being a difference in form factor much in the same way that people say that there isn't a huge difference between some Android smartphones and the iPhone as the numbers don't say so, but there IS a difference.

In conclusion I'd say that the MBA is more polished as a product, which is entirely unsurprising considering that the use of hi-DPI displays can still be considered "bleeding edge". With the new pricing for the MBA, it's really a case of weighing up whether the display is worth the extra cost and potential compromises. If it were me buying now I'd still be buying the Air because of the compromises above aren't justified by the display in my personal opinion. However, both are great machines. The best advice anybody can give is to go and try for yourself in a shop, and spend plenty of time having a look.

 

[Spit]

Which programs do you use as most are now retina ready and look amazing?

The lag on the Iris Pro 15" rMBP is virtually non existent. It is still there on the 13" but not as much as the previous generation.

If I was replacing a desktop I would go with the 15" rMBP. I have had the 13" MBA Ivy Bridge and Haswell plus the 13"/15" rMBP Ivy Bridge and Haswell versions. Anything but the 15" always feels like a supplementary device rather than a full on desktop replacement.

 

[86JR]

Thank you guys. I think I am going to go with an MBA, and try and get a fully specced one. Though apparently a new one is out soon 12" so should I wait for that?

 

[Fallen god]

Thank you guys. I think I am going to go with an MBA, and try and get a fully specced one. Though apparently a new one is out soon 12" so should I wait for that?

TBH I don't think it is worth waiting on a rumours, that has been going on forever now. And even if there is a 12" retina Air, I think it will be at a different price point, and maybe aimed at different tasks, so why not just get your Air now and see how it goes.

 

[ShortWarning]

Thank you guys. I think I am going to go with an MBA, and try and get a fully specced one. Though apparently a new one is out soon 12" so should I wait for that?

They've just refreshed the MBA. If a 12" does come I don't think it will be till next year.

 

[hughtrimble]

Going to offer a slightly different perspective having used both.

Have used both a current generation 13" rMBP and MBA (mine) side by side for similar tasks, here are some observations:

• Running the display at scaled resolutions on the rMBP results in slight blurriness that may or may not affect you. For me it was rather annoying, but turning off font smoothing sorted made a big improvement. The MBA of course is more "blocky", but the rMBP was "hazy". For the most part this is a case of compromise, as the rMBP does offer superior viewing angles and colour reproduction. Running Windows VMs will result in some elements being blurry and others not, but this is a problem with Windows, not the machine. Not many have complained or noticed, so to be honest I'd say this isn't an issue for most.
• Found that running VMs on both my MBA and the rMBP side-by-side, the rMBP was noisier and warmer. However, the guys above haven't complained, so I'm presuming this isn't really an issue. Battery life on the rMBP was worse, but unless you need extreme longevity this isn't really an issue.
• UI lag on the rMBP was frustrating. It just wasn't as fluid as my machine, and if you use such OS X features frequently, it really dampens the user experience. It just felt more sluggish the majority of the time (this was a completely fresh install on a brand new machine, so there weren't any background processes utilising system resources abnormally).
• People always comment on the rMBP being more powerful, but in reality this isn't the case. The i7 MBA and i5 rMBP are virtually identical. Superior graphics performance on the rMBP but aside from that not much in it. If you're looking at a powerful machine, you should be looking at a 15" rMBP instead frankly.
• Air is nicer to type on due to the taper, while the rMBP is more meaty and feels nicer to carry around. The lack of weight with the MBA is disconcerting, as I always worry whether it is still in my bag. People comment on there being a difference in form factor much in the same way that people say that there isn't a huge difference between some Android smartphones and the iPhone as the numbers don't say so, but there IS a difference.

In conclusion I'd say that the MBA is more polished as a product, which is entirely unsurprising considering that the use of hi-DPI displays can still be considered "bleeding edge". With the new pricing for the MBA, it's really a case of weighing up whether the display is worth the extra cost and potential compromises. If it were me buying now I'd still be buying the Air because of the compromises above aren't justified by the display in my personal opinion. However, both are great machines. The best advice anybody can give is to go and try for yourself in a shop, and spend plenty of time having a look.

Just responding to the bit in bold:

The reason I didn't think to mention the warmth is because of what I transferred from - an HP 17.3inch entertainment laptop that used to get so hot it shut itself down! It was actually unbearable to use. A laptop stand with cooler fan prevented shut downs, but was a hassle due to the size.

This heat also resulted in fan noise that was in a way more irritating than the fan noise from an unwanted desk fan! Whining and whirring like mad that would pulse (so you could never really get used to the noise as it was changing so often).

Compared to that monstrosity this rMBP 13 I have now is fantastically cool and so madly quiet (bar a high-pitched hum that you can hear on occasion) that I hadn't considered to mention it - my apologies. So I cannot speak for comparing it to an Air or a straight MBP temperature or fan noise-wise, so as you suggest, the OP ought to try and have a go on all three to see what each is like for his/her use.

 

[Fallen god]

Just too add to hugh, this is my first OSX laptop and I found they really like to go for warmer > sound so my fan never speeds up unless I'm over 90c.

So I personally just micro manage my fan a bit, I leave it at 3k for work and right now I have 2 VMs, Photos, Safari (iPad testing), Chrome, Netbeans, Sublime text, loads of terminals and so on and its 52c which I would consider a good temps. At default Apple would have it at 1k RPM and I would be around 75c, which is a bit to warm for me lol since I use my laptop in my lap at times.

 

[lamboman]

Just responding to the bit in bold:

The reason I didn't think to mention the warmth is because of what I transferred from - an HP 17.3inch entertainment laptop that used to get so hot it shut itself down! It was actually unbearable to use. A laptop stand with cooler fan prevented shut downs, but was a hassle due to the size.

This heat also resulted in fan noise that was in a way more irritating than the fan noise from an unwanted desk fan! Whining and whirring like mad that would pulse (so you could never really get used to the noise as it was changing so often).

Compared to that monstrosity this rMBP 13 I have now is fantastically cool and so madly quiet (bar a high-pitched hum that you can hear on occasion) that I hadn't considered to mention it - my apologies. So I cannot speak for comparing it to an Air or a straight MBP temperature or fan noise-wise, so as you suggest, the OP ought to try and have a go on all three to see what each is like for his/her use.

That's fair enough really. I've noticed with a lot of Windows notebooks that the fans will randomly spin up and down for no reason. I've not had my MBA spin up yet, but when my old MBP did it was at least predictable; it only happened when I pushed it hard.

I'll also be completely honest though. Based on my experience, the rMBP became hot, while the MBA stayed cool, which is to be expected (ULV CPU in the Air). It really comes down to how much it bothers you and whether your usage will cause it. If the OP is using it exactly as they describe, it simply won't happen. Either way, it is better than the competing machines that I've come across, and it doesn't seem to have been complained about, so it could have been buggy software pushing the machine particularly hard (it does happen).

 

[Xelene]

I opted for the Macbook Air last year and to be honest did have some buyers remorse over it compared to the 13" Pro, mostly over the screen and maybe to a lesser extent the expansion options. However, I find the 1440x900 screen to be perfectly fine and honestly I love that it is so light that I can toss it in my bag on the off-chance that I need to use it and the battery is going to last a good long time (and charges fast). I think the Pro is just that bit heavier, and the battery is just that bit worse to make it more of a conscious decision to take with me.

I mostly use it for dev work and it's more than capable of running an IDE, text editor, database or two and whatever else I happen to need - it's not a slouch by any means.

When I'm at home and want to game, there's a headless Steam box which streams games perfectly fine.

 

[gibb]

What are your opinions on when the rMBP 13 inch might see an upgrade?

 

[LazyManc]

Having used a 2013 rMBP 13" at work and owning a 2011 MBA 13", the only reason to go for the rMBP is the screen. Performance-wise they'll be no difference for general web-browsing or office usage. I'm a web dev and regularly run VMs - neither machine struggles with this.

The difference in weight doesn't sound much from the specs (1.57kg vs 1.35kg) but the Air does feel noticeably lighter, and is more comfortable to sit with on your lap due to the taper.

Next time I upgrade I'll be sticking with the Air, but I'll wait until they add a retina display.