Interconnects

Soldato
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People "know" as a 'fact" but have never been part of a blind test, borrowed a cable or take up Lucid offer of a demo, studied the science and engineering or anything at all.... but still they "know"... is that arrogance or ignorance? or both...... but constantly there are people around the world who try out cables and experience the same effect and can report a constant "change" associated to the various brands or cables...... A good dealer, can sit a customer down and demonstrate the effect and get the same response independently week after week...... But all those customers all imagined the same thing and are fools.....

Perhaps science hasn't yet found how to measure the way humans hear and perceive sound and what changes can happened through conductors and electronics that has an effect on the process of "hearing"....

My recent cable swapping still appears to be successful.... so I'd rather listen to my Hi-Fi than trawl the internet for reasons as to why I'm wasting my time and money listening to it.....
 
Man of Honour
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So you are buying a cable that is of better construction that copes with interference better? No issue with that but that is all it is - it's not making the sound any better.
I don't think I claimed it made the sound better.

But that is exactly what most high end manufacturers (and indeed a majority of audiophiles) would have you believe. Power leads that makes your 0's and 1's more high definition, directional ethernet cables to make sure your digital music plays flawlessly, cables that make your colours more vibrant etc.
I'm not a high-end manufacturer, nor am I "the majority of audiophiles" so I can't speak for them, and equally you shouldn't assume that I follow blindly either. I simply remain open-minded to the option to explore all avenues. That means I listen for myself and decide on my own rather than taking someone else's word for it, either one way or the other. :)
 
Soldato
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We should get back to the original idea of the thread?... what cables do you use and perhaps how you come to choose them?

By coincidence I had actual tried some new cables a few weeks ago, out of curiosity and to try myself some recommendations I'd read from other forum members..... obviously not this forum!!!.

It had been a long time since I'd tried different cables, partly because believe it or not I am a partial cable sceptic, second I had faith in the cables supplied in the box with the equipment, being actually of a very good quality and far from cheap if bought separately.

Contacting a couple of my local dealers and arranging a loan set didn't present a problem, it was actually encouraged as the best way to try them, so I collect a mix of options to try out.

The objective of my little test was as follows.....

1. Evaluate mains cable effect...... ie fancy kettle leads
2. Compare alternative analogue interconnect cables.
3. Compare an alternative speaker cable.

Test method:-
In the comfort of my own home, try out over a week, doing some AAB comparisons (Tunedem method) and extended listening.
No blind testing planned or required. I have the ability to admit I can't hear a difference!!
Interconnects tried on the Streamer first then between Pre and Power amps.

Items on test
Standard Linn mains lead - Included in the box
Supra LoRad 2.5 pre made mains lead (also available at £10/meter off a roll)
Linn Silver analogue interconnect - included in the box, circa £200
Supra Sword analogue interconnect .....£400
Chord Sarum Super Tuned Array interconnect.... £2,000 (not a typo)

Tequilirium Ultra Black Speaker cable (My current cable)
Supra Sword 2.5 Speaker cable.

First up, mains cable swap, borrowed two ready made leads, only one would fit my equipment, as the other had an oversized plug, so perhaps the effect was limited.
I wasn't really getting any change, generally I've struggle with expensive kettle leads anyway, so my expectation was met!

The good thing is though this cable is fully screened and possible to buy off the roll.
I had a plan to tidy up my mains leads, by having two fused outlets and hard wire some made up equipment leads from a terminal box. A DIY extension lead with hardwired fly leads to the equipment. Using minimum plugs and connections and fully screened.
As my cables when back in the shelf/rack will cross each other and end in a messy tangle, I believe it's good house keeping for moderate cost to ensure I have minimum interference etc and take care of the details..
Time will tell on this one... In the end I wired up 5 equipment boxes for approx £150, used Martin Kaiser silver plated IEC plugs and a couple of MK fused outlets and some terminal boxes from Screwfix....some what cheaper than going to RA !!!


Next up I/C's... Swapping out the Linn Silver for the Supra Sword, though subtle at first this brought a more open and detailed top end. Sound/instruments had more apparent depth and space. Switching back made the sound slightly distorted or dirty/gritty. The smoothness and clarity of the Sword being lost. Music seemed more natural and easier to listen to with the Sword.
Repeating the process but with the Sarum, this produced the same effect.... interesting, considering the cost difference.
Not a huge game changing difference, but repeatable and consistent improvement heard from swapping back and forth over the week.

Next compared Sword vs Sarum.... Now it got really tricky, to be honest I couldn't choose a winner here, sometimes one sometimes the other...were they different?
If yes then not enough to identify one over the other reliably. If I had to choose a winner, it actually would be the Sword, as I felt it gave a bit more bite and impact on things like snare drums or sharply plucked or struck notes.

Using both, one on the Streamer, the other on the Pre-power, really gave a smooth, clean open sound free from any grain or distortion... Made it easier to listen at higher volume without any fatigue and for longer. The music seemed to flow and sound more natural. The ambience of the recording, whether real of faked made clearer to hear.

So next I tried the speaker leads...... hmm well I tried and failed, as it would appear these being a loan pair the previous recipient had been a little heavy handed and the the connection between plug and cable had been broken....I rang them out with a meter to confirm, yep on both lengths a least one cable was dead.... Shame, I'll perhaps borrow a working pair another time.

To conclude I bought two sets of the Sword I/C's, one set for the Streamer, the other between Pre-Power amps....... So yes I liked the "effect".

Plugged the new ones all in and took a quick listen, as often is the case new cables and equipment needs time to burn in, initially sounding a bit sharp and edgy and lacking bass weight or body. To run it in I disconnected one speaker lead, and left the streamer playing the a Radio stream at high volume over night and all the next day, (from Linn radio feed of coarse

Over the next couple for days the system sound returned back to how it was with the loan cables (which were a few years old and well used in the case of the Supra Sword). A few weeks on and everything has come together well.

As a package of changes so far I'm pleased, the smoothness, clarity and detail, the more open and spacious sound has made the music much more engaging.... I've relaxed and listed longer and louder to music via digital than I'd being doing before. Detail and clarity in the bass is quite staggering at times... In fairness some of this is still down to the upgraded power supplies I had fitted in my power amps some months ago... which was quite jaw dropping.....
Perhaps you could say it's made it more analogue like? .....
Anyway one last step will be to put another Sword I/C on the turntable phono stage to pre-amp.

Yep, the costs will alarm some, and not surprise others at all.....the Law of Diminishing Returns is of coarse very real, but then that's' true of any interest where you purse the last bit of performance..... from Cars to Overclocked PC's......
VFM?, will always be subjective... As with beauty, it's in the eyes of the beholder..... in the context of the system cost and performance level then squeezing a little more out of it and bringing all the elements better together is worth the cost and effort.... IMO.

What it has shown is price is not an indication of performance, the Chord cable was supposed to be the mutts nuts and for sure priced to reflect it..... for me it brought no extra over the Sword.... (BTW I wouldn't have paid that much for a cable, but I wanted to use it as a reference point and to test the claims I read).
Which for me underlines the message some of us have said here, choose by listening for yourself.... ignore the marketing, packaging and internet warriors.
If you can't tell the difference between cables in your budget range, buy the cheaper one. Perhaps try a range and type of cables, simple copper, silver plated copper, pure silver, different screenings etc.... rather than 3 types of the same material and construction which could be the same stuff rebranded!!!

The point of it all? ... in case some forget, is to make the Hi-Fi system as enjoyable and listenable and "musical" as possible.... So if your preferred cable adds or subtracts something it's the final result we are judging, within the context of your room, your system, your personal preference, your wallet....... enjoy the music.
 
Associate
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'No blind testing planned or required. I have the ability to admit I can't hear a difference!!
and then you say'
'Swapping out the Linn Silver for the Supra Sword, though subtle at first this brought a more open and detailed top end.'
Did you play the same piece of music?
 
Soldato
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Digital signal leads (HDMI, SPDIF optical) - eBay, sort by cheapest inc. P&P

Analogue phono leads - Cheap QED or similar, purely because I want a decent amount of shielding against RFI / EMI that comes as part of the better build quality with these cables.

Speaker cable - any old reasonably thick-gauge cable will do. CAT5 cables also.

Balanced (XLR) - Same as the analogue phono leads.


If you spend silly money on some interconnects and speaker cables and think it sounds different, then congratulations, I'm glad you're happy, but you're wasting your money. You really are :).
 
Don
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What it has shown is price is not an indication of performance

Be interesting if you could repeat your testing with £1.99 kettle leads and some sub £10 analogue interconnects. Since a £2000 cable doesn't necessarily sound better, what if a £10 cable doesn't sound worse?


Plugged the new ones all in and took a quick listen, as often is the case new cables and equipment needs time to burn in

Interesting - I have not heard of cable burn in before, is there any verifiable proof that anything actual changes in the cable, or is this subjective user opinion?
 
Soldato
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How can a cable burn in? Does it somehow lower the resistance? What exactly can happen in a cable over time to make any change in how it carries a signal?

That's why I find it so hard to believe people they claim cables make a difference, when they come out with stuff like cable burn in, which makes absolutely no sense to me.

Also why does burn in always result in a positive change? I've never read someone burning in a piece of audio equipment and saying it made the sound worse..
 
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Associate
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We are now offering a cable burn-in service on the brand new Nordost VIDAR machine. This service is available for any manufacturers cables.
New cables can sound brittle, bright and lacking in detail. Normal burn in procedure with your Hi-Fi system can take weeks or months. The Vidar will allow your cables to achieve maximum performance immediately
1) It neutralizes spurious charges that build up around the cables and the insulation.

2) It provides a very wide band and deep conditioning into the conductor core, which produces changes in the way signals pass through the metal.


3) It ultrasonically conditions the surface of the conductors.
£34.99 for 4 days 96 hours
 
Soldato
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We are now offering a cable burn-in service on the brand new Nordost VIDAR machine. This service is available for any manufacturers cables.
New cables can sound brittle, bright and lacking in detail. Normal burn in procedure with your Hi-Fi system can take weeks or months. The Vidar will allow your cables to achieve maximum performance immediately
1) It neutralizes spurious charges that build up around the cables and the insulation.

2) It provides a very wide band and deep conditioning into the conductor core, which produces changes in the way signals pass through the metal.


3) It ultrasonically conditions the surface of the conductors.
£34.99 for 4 days 96 hours


:D:D Bahahahaa
 
Soldato
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Thanks for taking the time to do that write up 9designs2.

Could I suggest a fun challenge? Presumably you've still got the previous interconnects. Could you get someone in your household to each day:
  • Flip a coin.
  • If heads, swap all the cables (old to new or vice versa). If tails, do nothing.
  • Record the date and which cables are plugged in.
Then (obviously without checking which cable is plugged in) go about your usual listening routine, and make notes on how the system sounds to you each day. E.g. the quality of the sound, whether it's better than yesterday or not.

Then after a fortnight compare your listening notes to the record of which cables were plugged in.
 
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Soldato
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Thanks for taking the time to do that write up 9designs2.

Could I suggest a fun challenge? Presumably you've still got the previous interconnects. Could you get someone in your household to each day:
  • Flip a coin.
  • If heads, swap all the cables (old to new or vice versa). If tails, do nothing.
  • Record the date and which cables are plugged in.
Then (obviously without checking which cable is plugged in) go about your usual listening routine, and make notes on how the system sounds to you each day. E.g. the quality of the sound, whether it's better than yesterday or not.

Then after a fortnight compare your listening notes to the record of which cables were plugged in.

Not practical, would require wife to pull all the kit out of the rack and swap stuff about... takes me some time and isn't easy..... I have sold couple of the cables already, but could fine a few more about the house ;)

When I was demo'ing I had it pulled out and turned around for access, so is sighted :p

I probably will swap back for few week sometime when I need to unplug the deck to change it's lead.

What your suggesting is something I often have in my mind when comparing..... "would I notice if it was swapped when I wasn't in the room"

If I think yes, it's an easy upgrade, if no, I take more time to be sure I get a consistent improvement that I then believe is building in an improvement that is taking the system in the right direction, perhaps part of other upgrades. Cables I would generally put in this category, certainly when going from something already very good to possibly better as I was.

Keep in mind that a system can sound different each day anyway, for may possible reasons... your mood for a start, mains quality can vary through the day, temperature seems to have an effect. There many variables, hence constant when comparing is key... The theory then is that over a longer time the general trend is the system overall is "better" what ever that means.

As with many interests you need to keep it all in context.... if you have 100 pound system then these subtleties and cables swaps are not where you should be looking..... If the system cost several grand then the small details start to become more import.
Hence you can't put a great system together by buying the current What Hi-Fi best buys list and think it will be the mutts nuts without trying it.. or by hooking it up with some magic wires.
 
Man of Honour
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Actually you could put together a great system using WH Best Buys. It is almost all about perception. The subtle nuances would be lost on most people.
That's actually something I quite strongly disagree with. There have been a few examples of people trying to do that here. There was a guy who bought a pair of Tannoys (DC6 I think) on clearance without listening. They were 5 star reviewed in WH but he hated the sound.

Using 5 star reviews and best buys as a short list method might be okay but the combinations really need to be heard together. It's useful to remember too about the brands that don't get reviewed so often and so would be overlooked. I can think of a few great amps I would never have heard if only going by the volume of reviews; e.g. Sugden, Creek and Albarry, There also brands raved about that I've listened to and wondered what all the fuss was about.
 
Soldato
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For those to like to read about the magic claims of cables, perhaps pop over to the Chord Co. Cable website and read about their new ground breaking cable...chord music cable... Which is said to improve on the Sarum Super Aray I borrowed at 1900 quid.... So heaven knows how much the new one is going to cost.... LOL ..
My local dealer has open/launch day soon for it..... Perhaps I'll give that one a miss.
 
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Soldato
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I've bought a couple of Mark Grant cables in the past. Subwoofer lead is the only one I have left, I bought it due to the length I needed (5m) at the time.

I bought a similar type of quality HDMI lead from Blue jeans cable as again, I needed a decent quality long length lead from source to projector & I've never had a problem with it in the 10 years its been in situ.
 
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