Caporegime
Hillsborough inquest verdict.
- Thread starter Danthus
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Man of Honour
I am calm, and have remained calm throughout this (and other) threads surrounding Hillsborough.
I only see your deletion and appropriation of my 'tone' or inferred meaning to be the only inflammatory thing here.
I'm glad to hear again that you are calm.
Let's hope that no further posts need to be deleted.
Caporegime
No, I am not 'oblivious' to different crowds behaving differently. Then again, when have cricket fans ever been caged in and treated like animals?
I have not said that all crowds are the same, nor have I pretended that they are
.Come on mate... that was a completely different situation to be fair...
You can't seriously be comparing the two? If you want to go down that route then we might as well bring back the traffic accident arguments.
Caporegime
Absolutely not; but the sentiment is you do not blame the crowd.
The Police, under the control of Duckenfield, on the 15th April 1989, completely failed to ensure the safety of the fans. The entire day was a catastrophic series of errors built on top of a series of errors, which resulted in the death of 96 innocent fans.
It's a case of the chicken and the egg, which came first. Except in this case, the egg came first, which was the police failing, and the crush (chicken) came second.
Man of Honour
It smacks of a knee jerk reaction. David Crompton is in no way to blame for the Hillsborough tragedy of 27 years ago and it serves no purpose to suspend him other than to say that the PCC has done something to placate those wanting Crompton to resign for no other reason than he is the chief of South Yorkshire. If erosion of public trust is his motive for suspending him then perhaps the PCC will resign also ?
I'm a serving copper and I say now and said when the case was reopened that if any cops have lied or covered up the truth then they should be nailed to the wall. Someone, indeed more than one, has to answer for 96 avoidable lost lives and be held to account but David Crompton is not that person and should not be thrown to the wolves. Pitch dictates that someone should take the fall but David Crompton ? No.
I believe the issue is that even today, after all that has come out, David Crompton has issued a fairly lacklustre apology and still thinks defending the actions of the SYP as rubustly as he did was the right course of action. His apology was directly criticised by the Home Secretay.
No, I am not 'oblivious' to different crowds behaving differently. Then again, when have cricket fans ever been caged in and treated like animals?
I have not said that all crowds are the same, nor have I pretended that they are
you dismissed the idea that elements of the crowd might have been rowdy by highlighting that people get killed at mecca during the hajj... where massive crowds of religious people get rather, erm, rowdy at times
the fact is there are more relevant examples of other sporting events featuring non rowdy crowds who don't require separation from each other or quite the same level of policing - you're talking about a club that three years earlier was banned from Europe for 6 years after their supporters fought rival fans, caused a wall to collapse resulting in hundreds being injured and 39 people being killed... elements of football crowds in the 80s were rowdy, elements of Liverpool fans at that time were very rowdy, they'd already killed people! That is a contributory factor in this regardless of the clear failures of police IMO... there are eye witness accounts from both a turnstile operator and low ranking police officer to support that
yes 9 men and women from Warrington, a town right next to Liverpool answered 'No' to a question surrounding the fans - it doesn't make it fact despite you posting the same copied and pasted text three times
Caporegime
The trouble is though that if he criticised them then he's going to get lambasted and turfed out. He basically couldn't win nomatter what. It's very easy for the home Secretary to criticise, especially given our current governments attitude to the police and public services in general.
My post wasn't directed at any one person let alone somebody on here. My post was regarding the entire situation and time between the disaster and the HIP report in 2012. So many people were shocked when the HIP report was released despite the fact that a lot of the stuff published was published in 1990 in the Taylor report. Unforuntately the article in that ****rag seemed to carry more influence than the Taylor report.
And as for people on here not promoting the lies in the Sun - numerous people have mentioned drunk and or ticketless fans causing the crush.
Man of Honour
Theresa May's recent Commons statement on the verdict was insincere to say the least.
She is in no moral position to criticise the police as she has presided over the most savage cuts to the service in living memory and has done so without remorse nor the slightest idea as to its affect on the service provided. That's another matter for another thread though.
Associate
India vs Pakistan? Never any trouble surrounding that.
Soldato
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You honestly believe a newspaper article written over 25 years ago is still influencing people's view on this, despite the fact that statically most people commenting here have never read it.
I was 9 at the time and apart from seeing the front page have never read the article so not sure how I could be influenced by it.
Soldato
So David Crompton has been suspended. I have read a few news articles on why his suspension was called for, but I can't understand the actual reason. Anyone
Soldato
Have the details of the jury been published?
If not, I don't believe you can infer the location of the inquest impacted on the answer to that question.
It is, but that doesn't really stop the fact that Crompton apologiesed previously, unreservedly and then during the inquest the police barristers continued to try and blame the fans. Saying in public one thing and doing his best in private to do the opposite.
So he either didn't know the tack the barristers would take making him incompetent or did know making him duplicitous.
Did you miss the part where I said I was commenting on the whole situation and time between the disaster and 2012?
Absolutely. That newspaper had immense sales at that time. It was believed by many, many readers because it lead the story, front page with the headline 'The truth'. It also fuelled the notion that many people had at the time, that all football supporters were drunken hooligans.
Though you may not have read it, it defiantly created a backdrop that people were ready to accept, and it stuck. This is clearly still evident today. You still hear references to it in bars and on the terraces, and even on this forum, even after the jury findings, people still can't quite believe that the fans were innocent.
They can't be innocent can they? They are football fans, and worse than that, they are Liverpool football fans.
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I think some people in this thread need to play with some Dominoes to understand the crushing effect.
Set them up in a fan/Triangle shape with 1000 along the far edge leading backwards to just 1 at the tip. Then very very very gently push that one on its own over. And watch them ALL fall over with ever increasing speed and pressure.
Set them up in a fan/Triangle shape with 1000 along the far edge leading backwards to just 1 at the tip. Then very very very gently push that one on its own over. And watch them ALL fall over with ever increasing speed and pressure.
Soldato
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So what you're saying is a policeman pushed one of the fans at the back over who in turn fell on top of another and another etc etc
You could also look at a queue of people, the rule is you wait til the person before you moves forward before you do and no one gets crushed.
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